Parental Advisory

[venta]

Does anyone know anything about The Vagina Monologues ?

I'd been told, by people who I'd regard as reliable, that they were extremely funny. Last night, I accidentally found a performance on the telly. The 2 minutes I watched seemed to consist entirely of a woman explaining how she'd "reclaimed" the word cunt, and then repeatedly saying it in different silly voices.

Which the audience seemed to find hilarious. Which I found incomprehensible. It's not like I found it offensive, it just... wasn't funny.

[One Notional Kudos Point to anyone who realises why I suddenly remembered about this :) ]

Comments

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

The current Sluggy storyline?

Nope

[venta.livejournal.com]

... I don't read Sluggy. Though that might have been a good answer, I dunno :)

[triskellian]

If what you watched was on Channel 4 around midnight, I think it was a programme about The Vagina Monologues, not the thing itself, if that helps at all?

Er..

[venta.livejournal.com]

I dunno. It was on in a room I walked into... but around midnight sounds about right, so probably!

I got the impression it was a program about them, interspersed with extracts from them. The bit I'm griping about appeared to be one of the latter.

[jiggery-pokery.livejournal.com]

Most of what I know about TVM comes from this guy's perspective.

[floralaetifica.livejournal.com]

It was interesting to read that entry, as the particular monologue that he mentions is the reason I've never seen the Vagina Monologues. I'd like to, because I hear it's very funny and empowering, but I know it'll upset me too much. I came across that monologue in a leaflet when I was first thinking about going to see it, and it upset me terribly for a long time. Even now I have to force myself not to think about it in order not to get distressed. Maybe I'm just a wimp. I'm certainly more sensitive than the average bear, as anything remotely scary or upsetting will stop me sleeping for weeks (and possibly off and on for the rest of my life).

[lathany.livejournal.com]

<checks LJ edit>

OK. I don't want to hear it either.

I'm probably a sensitive bear too. Certainly I currently see advantages to my somewhat sheltered existence.

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

This particular extract sounds like the kind of humour that will be funny if it makes you uncomfortable, but not too uncomfortable. So it's all a question of where the Gaussian curve peaks :-)

[verlaine.livejournal.com]

I almost went to see TVM in London a week or two back, but the plan fell through. So no help at all here, sorry.

I actually know someone who's been in the Vagina Monologues...

[condign.livejournal.com]

I've not been to see it, but gather it's the kind of neo-feminist celebratory empowerment thing that would drive me up a wall. (iwillfearnoevil did one of the monologues in a performance in Atlanta--feel free to drop her a line and tell her I recommended you, she'll talk your ear off.)

It disturbs me that, from what I've heard from my friend acting in it and what I've read, I'm likely to agree with Slate or Salon.com. I'd make a guess at it being Puppetry of the Penis with mental instead of physical exhibitionism and delusions of intellectual and artistic merit. But then I'm the old codger who keeps trying to explain that one can aspire to gentlemanliness without sexism, and a gentleman doesn't listen to women repeatedly saying 'cunt' in public.

(And what the hell does it mean to 'reclaim' a word, anyway. I've got as good a claim on that one as anybody*, and I'd have handed it away for free...)

*Possible exception being anyone who owns the URL...

Re: I actually know someone who's been in the Vagina Monologues...

[venta.livejournal.com]

And what the hell does it mean to 'reclaim' a word, anyway. [*]

Actually, I mind less about what they were trying to do - though for different reasons. Fundamentally, a word is an arrangement of letters - I don't see why a word should be considered obscene, offensive, or anything else, beyond the obscenity/offence/anything else of what it represents. (But yes, I accept that this is not the case, and therefore try not to use words in a way that other people will find offensive, cos I'm nice like that).

[*] I'm assuming that was sarcasm :) If you actually want to know, read on...

The idea being that 'cunt' is an obscene word in a way that none of the slang terms for a penis are, and as such somehow denigrates females. Thus people (women in particular) should use the word in a non-pegorative sense, not be scared of it, let it regain it literal meaning, and general rejoice in the empowering femininity of it all.

Re: I actually know someone who's been in the Vagina Monologues...

[condign.livejournal.com]

The idea being that 'cunt' is an obscene word in a way that none of the slang terms for a penis are, and as such somehow denigrates females. Thus people (women in particular) should use the word in a non-pegorative sense, not be scared of it, let it regain it literal meaning, and general rejoice in the empowering femininity of it all.

I was being sarcastic as to not knowing what the idea of reclaiming a word is. But the concept is both silly and in this case self-evidently wrong. If you'd like to prove that, I suggest the following experiment.

a) Find human lab rat. [Insert lawyer joke here]
b) Take said lab rat to pub across from my apartment, and pick a suitably burly local.
c) Instruct said lab rat to call said local a 'cock', 'dick', 'dickhead', or (if we can go for actions involving same, 'wanker' etc. etc.). I believe we will see observably similar results as if he'd said, 'cunt.' (I'd also recommend a 'double-blind' trial, in that both the lab rat and the local should be 'blind' to the fact we set it up.)

But no one's going around asking for the 'Penis Monologues' or trying to 'reclaim' the word 'cock.' And if they tried, it would be silly. It's a word that causes offense, and is used because it's offensive, not because it's actually related any more to the literal meaning of the word. Sorry for the rant, but really, is 'cunt' a word that anyone really wants back?

Re: I actually know someone who's been in the Vagina Monologues...

[floralaetifica.livejournal.com]

And what the hell does it mean to 'reclaim' a word, anyway
What it means is that you use it publically in a positive way, thus gradually robbing the word of its usually highly emotive perjorative power, and in doing so robbing hate-filled bigots of one more of their verbal weapons. I'm all for reclaiming cunt, it's the only word for female genitals that isn't euphemistic, twee or just plain nasty. Why not call a spade a spade? It's a good old-fashioned Saxon word, and it wasn't so long ago that it wasn't laden with unpleasant misogynist overtones. (I blame the Victorians :) )

However, if you disapprove of 'neo-feminist celebratory empowerment' then I doubt we're ever going to see eye to eye on this one.

Re: I actually know someone who's been in the Vagina Monologues...

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

Why not call a spade a spade?

It's "person of African ancestry" these days.

Next time I shall have to be more clear...

[condign.livejournal.com]

I know what it means to 'reclaim' a word, that was a rhetorical question, trying to highlight the silliness of the idea. Believe it or not, I've heard 'cunt' used as a perjorative by people who you would not describe as 'hate-filled bigots,' purely because they wanted a derogatory word. But I do protest that 'cunt' long ago lost most of its literal meaning, being very rarely used outside of a very limited set of situations to actually refer to genitalia, and rather holds most of its meaning in an emotive context. At which point I have to think, 'who cares, and who wants the word back?'

'Why not call a spade a spade?'
If that's what's desired, I'd rather have thought that The Vagina Monologues had managed to do so already by virtue of its title, no philological reclamation work required. :)

You are right that we are unlikely to see eye-to-eye on this, but in general I disapprove of much that is 'neo', most of what's 'feminist', and find silly anything calling itself 'empowerment' in that it rarely involves the exercise of anything that's charitably understood as power. I'd be just as mocking if some group of white American southerners were to sit down one day and decide to 'reclaim' the term 'cracker.'

[jiggery-pokery.livejournal.com]

I have an evil plan. One day I will get dressed up and attend The Vagina Monologues alone. If any lady questions me about it then I will say "Oh, my girlfriend's also going to see it tonight, it's just that she lives five thousand miles away." Worth doing for effect alone whether it happens to be true or not. (If it happened to be true then it's not a particularly evil plan as evil plans go.)

Broadly I think I am in favour of at least the principle of TVM, whether it turns out to be worthy or unworthy, on the grounds that anything which can get people to consider the issues involved and reduce the mystification about the organ has probably got to be a good thing. Not convinced that this is a strong argument, mind you.

I look forward to the inevitable sequel, the Anus Monologues. (The Anal Anthologies, maybe?) Or would discussion of prostate glands be dragging the tone of conversation down too far for anyone's comfort?

[floralaetifica.livejournal.com]

But why should women be unhappy to see men there? I'd be delighted to see men at such an event on their own, it would deminstrate that they weren't just being dragged along by their girlfriends.

[jiggery-pokery.livejournal.com]

I'd have thought/hoped so too, but people aren't logical - see the comments in Josh's entry (the link I pointed at above).

By the way, I've long wondered which of the people at Oxford who I didn't really know, but recognised as a name, at the time you are. :-) If you didn't know me at Oxford at all then I don't suppose it matters at all!

[condign.livejournal.com]

Broadly I think I am in favour of at least the principle of TVM, whether it turns out to be worthy or unworthy, on the grounds that anything which can get people to consider the issues involved and reduce the mystification about the organ has probably got to be a good thing. Not convinced that this is a strong argument, mind you.

I rather like the mystification of the organ, thank you very much. We have lost so much power from the loss of that mystique.

The Anus Anthologies, however, will never occur. As the old joke goes (if I may be allowed to 'reclaim' another word), 'Opinions are like assholes--everyone's got one.'

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

I rather like the mystification of the organ, thank you very much.

That's as may be, but you don't have one. I think that if the mystification is causing problems (in this case because it contributes to the cunt being subconsciously considered by some a shameful deformity, and by many as some kind of stigma), then the priority can be granted to those who risk being inflicted with serious mental disorders. The analogy is imperfect, but how would you expect men to feel if "beard" was an insult to the full extent "cunt" is? Could they be expected to almost always develop a healthy understanding of their own appearance?

Obviously, I Am Not A Psychiatrist Specialising In Female Sexuality. I'm not convinced that reclaiming a word is that major a part of dealing with the issues. Nevertheless, before you can have power over something you must know its names...

We have lost so much power from the loss of that mystique.

Who's "we", what power? Is this part of your desire for a kind of bemused (or intrigued) gentlemanliness?

Ah, this must be one of your evil plans...

[condign.livejournal.com]

...drawing me into this conversation has made me decide I must see The Vagina Monologues merely to make certain that everything I believe about the play is true.

I'm sure this was your evil plan, Venta. Anyone care to come along?

Good grief, noooo !

[bateleur.livejournal.com]

But I would pay good money for a photo of your bored face halfway through the performance !

Re: Good grief, noooo !

[condign.livejournal.com]

My respect for Venta's evil is now immense.

Not only has she tricked me to going to the Vagina Monologues, the quick addition of a camera to trip inventory will, it seems, pay for it.

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

[One Notional Kudos Point to anyone who realises why I suddenly remembered about this :) ]

That'd be:

Current music: Anti-Nowhere League - So What?

[venta.livejournal.com]

Yup :)