LJ query

[venta]

If I'm logged into LJ, and I open a new browser window, I appear to be logged in in the new window, too. And if I log out from there, it logs me out in both windows.

This didn't used to happen. And I'd like it not to. Have I inadvertently checked some option somewhere which I now can't find, or has something else changed ?

(I'm using IE/Windows 2K)

Comments

[diffrentcolours]

Logging in works via cookies, which are common to all browser windows. As far as I know, this has always been the case...

[wechsler.livejournal.com]

It's certainly *supposed* to be the case - you've got a badly broken browser if it isn't.

[venta.livejournal.com]

Well, insert free insults about IE here.

However, just now it's quite happily opening me unlogged-in windows again. Which may be broken, but it's also What I Want.

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

Well, insert free insults about IE here.

It's not IE's fault, what it's doing is sensible browser behaviour.

Session cookies are supposed to apply for the lifetime of the browser instance, because it's far more common that the Right Thing is for "open in new window" to preserve your session info than it is for "open in new window" to discard it. As Chris says below, starting a second browser instance discards the data if that's what you want, but "open in new window" doesn't do that for good reasons.

For example, suppose I'm on a slow connection, so I want to "open in new window" all the posts on my friends list and then start reading them while they load. According to you I should hit a login screen for each one that is friends-locked, just because it's a different window. According to Bill Gates I shouldn't, because the new window is in the same instance of the browser.

Logging out causing a logout in both windows kind of depends on the semantics of "logging out" from the site in question. With websites, "log out" tends to mean "I am no longer using this site. So don't let anybody anywhere who is claiming to be me use it any more", because websites communicate in a disjointed way that historically has led to some highly dodgy session-ID models, and being able to know you've shut everything down was useful. With something stream-based like telnet, it makes more sense for "log out" to mean by default "I'm done with this connection but I might have others I'm still using".

But whichever Livejournal does in cases where you have multiple instances of your browser with different session cookies, it's LJ rather than the browser which has made the decision.

[venta.livejournal.com]

Yes, I was never expecting "open in a new window" to log me out. It was multiple browser instances I was complaining about.

[triskellian]

Opening a new browser window should be the same as opening a new page in the same window - the server you're getting the stuff from can't tell the difference. Has your puter been infested with pixies?

Slightly more helpfully, the 'don't leave me logged in forever' option will have some sort of time setting to help it tell the difference between 'sessions', and if you're prone to leaving the same page open without refreshing it - perhaps reading your friends page in bits and pieces over the course of several hours - it could appear that the page you've had open for ages is still logged in, and the new one you've just opened isn't. It would actually mean you're not logged in, as you'd see if you refreshed the original page.

Or, y'know, pixies. I reckon they're responsible for many computer oddities.

Hmm. I was going to use my 'I do believe in fairies' icon, cos of the pixies comments, but I think this one is more appropriate, as well as allowing me to say: GIC!

[venta.livejournal.com]

Nope, I'm definitely genuinely logged in on this window, and genuinely not on the other. Pixies it is, then.

GIC!

Sounds like you've been drinking, there ;)

I don't believe I've seen a GIC before.

[triskellian]

Pixies! Must be!

I don't believe I've seen a GIC before.
leathellin coined it, I think.

[venta.livejournal.com]

(Did I just completely fail to post a comment to you there ? I posted it, but it doesn't seem to have showed. Waaaaah! Pixies!)

[venta.livejournal.com]

Nope, the missing comment has arrived now. Even though numerous Ctrl-F5ings didn't make it show earlier.

[triskellian]

Yeah, I get that quite a lot, too. My friends page will show 'x comments', but if I go to the entry, no comments show up for ages! Pixies again!

[leathellin.livejournal.com]

That would appear to be a rambling icon...

So when do we start seeeing metame posting GIC's?

[triskellian]

That would appear to be a rambling icon...
Indeed. And it's all your fault ;-)

So when do we start seeeing metame posting GIC's?
Soon, soon... Can't rush these things ;-)

[chrisvenus]

ITs a long time since I've last checked this...

AS people said permanent cookies are kept on your hard drive and shared by browsers. However, session based cookies are kept by the process running. This means if you tell LJ never to log out then that is going to be shared by other browser windows (because it writes a cookie to your hard drive). If you use the "Logout when browser closes" it will wait for that process to finish first.

In IE I seem to remember on my setup that clicking the icon to launch IE starts a new process but using ctrl-N or open link in new window opens another window of the same process. This may be what has changed (ie you are just opening them differently to last time you noticed the behaviour) or it may be that they are always opening in the same process.

For directory windows (ie windows explorer) there is an option in tools..folders options.. view called launch process in separate windows. Its possible this affects IE though I don't think it should (I currently have it off and IE does what I think you want) but might as well try if all else fails.

I should end by saying that I'm on win2kpro so my mileage may well vary. If so apologies. :)

[venta.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I use "Logout when browser closes", and usually launch my copies of IE from a shortcut on the taskbar. I haven't deliberately looked into the evil mess of IE options and changed anything recently.

If Windows' task manager is to be believed, then each copy of IE is opening in a new process. I might check whether it still does next time the opening-windows-with-me-logged-in starts happening.

I'm afraid the technical might is falling before the weight of Triskellian's altogether more plausible argument :)

[chrisvenus]

I'm afraid the technical might is falling before the weight of Triskellian's altogether more plausible argument

Can I suggest as a more plausible excuse than pixies (which I assume is the triskellian argument you are talking about)? How about "user error". I think you're just being crap and are in fact doing something consistently different and just haven't noticed. Bound to be the case if you believe in pixies. :)

[triskellian]

Pixies! Pixies! It's all about the pixies!

(A bit more seriously: sometimes computers just do stuff which makes no sense. And I'm now going to try and remember the next time such a thing happens, and post it to see if you have an explanation ;-)

[triskellian]

And speaking of pixies, I'm sure this icon used to have another 'I do' on it, and some animation...

[wimble.livejournal.com]

You mean the bits in the bottom left corner, where first one "I do." and then another "I do!" appear?

It does, it does!

[triskellian]

I do mean that! I do. I do!

And it's working properly for me now I'm at home. Another example of pixies, if you ask me.

[wimble.livejournal.com]

You're using Mozilla at work?

Check to see that you've got (deep breath)

Preferences -> Security & Privacy -> Images -> Animated Images should loop:
As many times as the image specifies

not Once, or Never

[triskellian]

It is set to that. I'm obsessed with icons, remember? And in any case, the frame it was frozen on was neither the first nor the last, so it's an odd place to freeze.

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

In my browser, pressing the "stop" button freezes animated images on whatever frame they happen to be at. Maybe yours does too.

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

sometimes computers just do stuff which makes no sense

In the trade we call those "bugs". The reason they make no sense is because, by definition, a bug is when a computer isn't behaving the way it's expected to.

[venta.livejournal.com]

Well :p in general, but... at present, the behaviour I'm seeing (ie the one I want - browser window open not-logged-in) is, according to some knowledgable people people above, not possible.

At least, it's not possible if we assume that IE's cookie-handling isn't completely stuffed. Which I'd have thought someone would have noticed by now, if it were.

[chrisvenus]

Well, with all due respect those knowledgeable people are wrong.

Session length cookies are stored on a per process basis usually which means that different processes won't have access to them. If you're on heffajunk you may have seen tommy's question where lots of people assured him that what he wanted couldn't be done. These were all actually people *guessing* what the behaviour would be without actually investigating it. I suspect the same has happened here and peopel are saying what they expect to be the case rather than what they know to be the case.

Umm... That was probably rantier than it needed to be. I'm feelign ranty today though. Grr.. arghh..

[wimble.livejournal.com]

Rather than identifying the cause, I'll try curing the symptoms. Or at least, changing your behaviour so the symptoms don't arise:

you could simply close the second window, without logging out. If you've set your options to "log me out when browser closes", then this should only log you out when the last window closes.

[venta.livejournal.com]

Well, yes, I had thought of that. But if your aim is to have an open, logged out window (which mine was, at the time), that doesn't really help.

As I commented above, it's gone away now and gone back to being sensible.

It's not a big problem, just of the two behaviours I know which one I'd rather have.