Would you marry me anyway ? Would you have my baby ?

[venta]

One of my colleagues is currently expecting a baby. I believe his girlfriend's going to do the actual producing, but he seems pretty expectant too. Said baby is due (overdue, even) so he's ready to dash out of work at a moment's notice.

I think I take it as read that any father today who's expecting to be moderately involved with a child would be present at the birth, if at all possible. I'd take it as read that any father a century ago would be as far away as he could feasibly manage from anything so out of his ken.

What I want to know is at what point did it become the norm for fathers to be present at the birth of their children ? Obviously there isn't going to be a precise date but has it been commonplace throughout my lifetime ?

I believe that my Dad was there when I was born, though I've recently come to the conclusion that my parents were dangerous reactionaries. When the mother went to parentcraft classes, my Dad went along too on the assumpmtion that he probably also needed to know how to wrangle a baby. So did someone else's husband, and two dads-to-be at such an event made local headlines. I'm not joking; I have the cuttings.

When the mother had to go into hospital shortly after I was born; Dad took some time off work and assumed full responsibility for a squawling newborn. It was a choice of necessity (I'm woefully underequipped with grandparents), but so unthinkable that when he went to collect Mum, the ward sister shouted at him for being so stupid as to bring the baby instead of leaving her "with the woman who was looking after her". This was 1976; a decade later I'd be in a school which thought it perfectly reasonable to divide the class on Wednesday afternoons into the girls (who had sewing lessons) and the boys (who had football lessons).

I realise that "being present at the birth" and "taking on childcare" are two separate issues. I can imagine the second being assumed (permanently, temporarily, reluctantly, happily...) for all sorts of reasons, but the former seems to be much more of a choice. In ordinary circumstances there isn't any need for the father to be present, it's a conscious choice. And in choosing it, some people stepped over a pretty large taboo at some point in the past.

I'm sure there were plenty of hippie types around in the sixties (or earlier) with wild ideas about dads and childcare and birthing procedures. But does anyone know when such ideas became properly mainstream ?

Or am I currently surrounded by woolly, lefty, new men who are giving me a distorted idea of the world today ?

Comments

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

My dad was at my birth in 1972 and it was "slightly unusual" (mostly because his boss actually let him have the time off to be there, I think) but neither of my parents is the crunchy hippy type. Dad also sat up with me most nights during the colicky phase but that was mostly because a) he's a night owl and Mum isn't, and b) the Olympics were on.

He was also at the birth of both of my brothers (1975 and 1977), although frankly everyone was at the last one - there was also a lecture theatre full of students. The perils of teaching hospitals!

[venta.livejournal.com]

I should add that both of my parents are very unhippyish in the general case, despite ideas of equality and frequent attendance at folk festivals. Sounds like the birth of your younger brother was quite a party!

[(Anonymous)]

Everyday will be honeymoon for us.

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

My father in law wasn't even told until three hours after his eldest was born (1972). It was assumed that he would ring when he got a moment, and it wasn't urgent enough to disturb him. He wasn't present at Colin's birth either (1978). My father was meant to be there for the labour but not the birth of at least me (1978) but I think also my siblings (1971/1973) but the midwwives couldn't understand that, and made him be there for the birth.

So I'm guessing attitudes changed over the course of the 70s.

[venta.livejournal.com]

OK, that's some interesting data points.

I had wondered whether the change came about around the time that it became common for a woman to go into hospital for the birth (though I have no idea whent that was either). If you're at home, all ready for your "lying in" then the bloke can stay safely tucked out of the way. If you phone your husband because you need a lift to hospital, it seems more natural that he might stick around. I'd imagine that was earlier than the 70s, though.

[ar-gemlad.livejournal.com]

My dad was present for both mine and my sister's births (1981 and 1979). For mine, he left half-way through his night-shift as a policeman, leaving his half-eaten fish and chips, which I suppose was a bonus for his workmates!

[venta.livejournal.com]

My dad was promised a cup of tea once I was born - and never got it. He's still bitter about his missed cuppa more than thirty years later :)

[venta.livejournal.com]

My dad was promised a cup of tea once I was born - and never got it. He's still bitter about his missed cuppa more than thirty years later :)

[glittertigger]

My Dad was present at my birth, although he wasn't present for the whole ordeal - he only got there half an hour before I popped out, which my mother still seems to be cross with him about.

I remember those divided lessons; at my school the boys got to do woodwork while the girls were sewing. And then we had to play netball while they played football. Grrrr.

[venta.livejournal.com]

The interesting thing was I don't remember anyone being unhappy with the divided lessons. None of the girls wanted to be made to go and run around in the cold, and the boys didn't want to learn to sew.

It's only with hindsight that I realise that isn't really the point :) I wish there'd been someone who'd asked to join the other group, as I'm very curious as to whether they would have been allowed.

[glittertigger]

I was cross about it at the time and asked to switch, repeatedly! Especially about the sports, as I hated netball. I was never allowed to switch groups.

[addedentry.livejournal.com]

An excellent question, as always. My perception of the change is much the same as yours, but I was surprised by the NHS research from 2005 [1] which says "96% of men said that they were present at the birth of their child".

A review paper from 1985 [2], subscription asserts that the change happened in the course of the 1970s and says "researchers [in 1980-1982] have reported difficulty in obtaining samples of fathers choosing not to attend the birth of their children"!

[mrlloyd.livejournal.com]

I would say the 70's.

I'd also say that geography wise things are still changing. My eastern european colleague (Hungary) was very impressed that I was there for Lisa, and thought Hungarian men wouldn't have been.

Some similar feedback from Latin America as well.

[venta.livejournal.com]

Aye, I had wondered whether small-scale geography might be relevant. There often seems to be an attitude lag between north and south England.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure the switchover happened some time between the birth of my younger sister (1970) and my oldest nephew (1993), but sadly my family doesn't provide any data points between...

In the case of my sister, my Dad was actually working at the same hospital where she was born, so he popped along to see her at the end of his shift. (To be fair, he may have been elbow-deep inside a patient at the actual moment of her birth.)

I wonder if there was some mass-cultural event which overnight made it respectable, eg. TV programme or something (back in the 70s when everyone had to watch such things, no matter how boring).

[wimble.livejournal.com]

I've no idea what my (or my sister's) situation was.

What I do remember, but not with sufficiently useful detail (although this should be researchable, if anybody cares enough) was the episode of Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em, which involves Frank trying to get Betty to the hospital for the birth of their daughter.

Wikipedia says this episode was originally aired on 27th December 1973. Clearly it involves the father taking the mother to the hospital (so not a home birth, and no ambulance involved). Whether Frank's actually present in the room when Jessica is born, or hanging around outside, I don't know (in fact, he might have left entirely: my memory is blank. But this seems unlikely, given the comedy potential of having him stressed on the spot).

I guess that could well have been influential, although, obviously, I've no evidence to back up that idea.

[exspelunca.livejournal.com]

I'd go for early 1970s in the trendier hospitals. Incidentally,your Dad did get a cup of tea. I'm the one still waiting!