I don't vote, I don't pay community tax

[venta]

If we assume that:

(a) most people don't bother voting in elections[*]
(b) people are more likely to complain when they don't like something than offer praise when they do

does it follow that parties like UKIP will always do well in elections for MEPs ?

[*] Turn-out figures show that about 1 in 3 people voted in the European elections last week.

Comments

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

I don't really understand the point of voting UKIP for Europe. It seems to be a way of saying "I want out of the EU". But cleverly done in such a way that saying so cannot possibly make it happen, since obviously MEPs don't have the power to take us out of Europe. MPs do, but people who vote UKIP for Europe have presumably voted Tory in general elections.

Possibly there are things which UKIP MEPs do that Tory ones don't, but if so they haven't bothered telling me the details. Or maybe the people who want out of the EU treat EU elections as a joke in which it's OK to vote UKIP, but don't feel strongly enough against the EU to vote on that issue in "real" elections.

I guess if UKIP wins any seats in the general election, then Euro-scepticism becomes a viable stance in Westminster.

[venta.livejournal.com]

I don't really understand the point of voting UKIP for Europe. It seems to be a way of saying "I want out of the EU". But cleverly done in such a way that saying so cannot possibly make it happen, since obviously MEPs don't have the power to take us out of Europe.

Phew. I'm glad you said that. I'd thought exactly the same, but assumed it was just me failing to understand the electoral process (politics really isn't my strong point).

I guess UKIP could have a policy of MEPs behaving so irrationally that the European parliament is thrown into such disarray that it gives up and goes home :)

[deeteeuk.livejournal.com]

I think their stance is that the European framework should be as small as possible*, and campaign to that end. In that way, they're a little like the Tories, who would prefer "small government" wherever possible. They want government to be small, but they still want to be in it.

*Obviously, they'd rather it just didn't exist, or that we weren't in it

[cardinalsin.livejournal.com]

If I'm not mistaken, UKIP has some council seats. This demonstrates the irrationality of UKIP voters (and indeed, the party itself) even more effectively than what you say above.

Of course, you could argue that in reality UKIP are more than a single-issue party, in that they represent xenophobia and opposition to anything the EU might actively do. In that case, voting for them in EU elections might make a lot more sense (assuming they actually attend the European Parliament, that is - last I heard they didn't).

[pm215]

My guess is that a lot of people see euro and local elections as basically irrelevant (look at the way turnout is always much lower than for general elections). Therefore they feel free to use them to send messages to Westminster (which they do care about). "The government is a load of rubbish" and "we don't like Europe" are both popular messages; I'd guess that a lot of BNP votes are trying to say "we want less immigration". I'm sure the fact that UKIP regularly does well in Euro elections has a measurable effect on the policies of the major parties on Europe; in that sense voting UKIP is a rational move.

(Also FPTP means voting UKIP in a general election would be pretty pointless and quite possibly actively harmful if the lot you didn't want got in due to split vote.)

[john-the-hat.livejournal.com]

c) most people don't think, or only think what the Daily Mail tells them to think, and vote accordingly?

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

If the rest of us do nothing about it, yes.

[jiggery-pokery.livejournal.com]

Relatively. I think you can generalise "parties like UKIP" to "parties who aren't the government", noting that the Conservatives came first in Wales despite the Welsh Assembly being a Labour - Plaid Cymru coalition.

Getting the arguments against this in first, though, the (Scottish assembly minority administration) SNP did top the poll in Scotland, though, and centre-right governing parties did well in France, Italy, Poland [?], Germany [?? and part of a coalition there] and other places, and there wasn't really as much of a surge in popularity for anti-EU sentiment across Europe as might have been expected.

[cardinalsin.livejournal.com]

People in the UK don't understand the EU. For most people, EU elections (indeed arguably elections generally) are keyword-based. In this case, the keyword is "Europe". UKIP are a single-issue party concerning Europe, therefore they attract a disproportionate share of the vote.

There's the expenses thing, too, which bizarrely has benefited UKIP despite the fact that they appear to be responsible for the most egregious expenses scandal so far.

[(Anonymous)]

On a more general electoral point. Where is the box on the ballot paper saying NONE OF THE ABOVE ARE CREDIBLE OR ACCEPTABLE! Come the next general election we need 100% turnout and, under current systems, 100% spoiled votes to truly express our views about parasitical, self-serving, deceitful moral cripples who either see politics as a career (where keeping their job is more important than any strong convictions), or are in politics for direct or indirect personal benefit. Apologies to the very small minority of MPs who actually put their constituents above personal or party policy. Rant now over.....till November.

[hjalfi.livejournal.com]

Draw a big X across the whole thing and post it --- it'll be counted as 'spoiled ballot', and is the standard way of saying 'I bothered to come out and vote but there weren't any candidates I wanted to vote for'.

Unfortunately the BBC news coverage (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/elections/euro/09/html/ukregion_999999.stm) doesn't actually say how many there were; I'd be interested to know... but it might be instructive to add up all the different numbers of votes and see if it makes up the total.

[(Anonymous)]

Indeed my usual practice is to turn up and "spoil" my vote in the event of there being no acceptable candidates. But some other people spoil their votes by accident. If spoiling my vote I write "none of these are acceptable", but in the counting of votes this is not distinguished from spoilt votes by the incompetent. Hence the need for a special box.

[venta.livejournal.com]

I've always thought this, then heard someone on the radio the other day who gave me pause.

Politicians are (notionally) people who want to change the world for the better. Thus if there are no candidates acceptable to you, there's a very obvious solution: stand yourself.

Now, I have no intention of standing as an MP myself. However, I do have to appreciate that candidates are not created out of thin air. If you view the current crop of MPs as "parasitical, self-serving, deceitful moral cripples", and thus presumably past redemption, where do you think replacements will come from in the event of 100% spoiled votes ?

[(Anonymous)]

Ah! You are forgetting that the vast majority of the current batch put themselves forward for the job. A few genuinely wishing to better the lot of their fellow man; but sadly most in it for themselves. 100% spoiled votes (clearly spoiled on purpose) IS the public vote of no confidence. The aim is to force a change in the system of how MPs are selected as candidates, and possibly a review of our first past the post elections.

I'm not necessarily in favour of PR. That could actually encourage the present Party First situation. With PR you vote for your party of choice, they choose from a list of candidate MPs, there is no local connection. At least with our present system there is the possibility of electing MPs who have their roots and a personal interest in their constituency. Also if they really live there, rather than buying a house purely to qualify as a candidate for the constituency, they can be seen, and indeed should be made, to be accountable for the way in which they represent their constituents.

But with the majority of MPs simply following party policy, because their job depends on it; and the current arrangements where key party members (and especially high profile transfers from other parties) are placed as the candidates for "safe" seats, we DO NOT have real local accountability.

A fine example. Local politicians want to demolish a popular public hall for a new retail development, in a Wiltshire town. They are informed by the local electorate that they will no longer be welcome in any business premises, they will be denied services by local businesses and tradespeople, indeed they will have to leave the area and move away to lead a normal life. The hall is still in use, I was dancing there at Whitsun. Accountability is important. We do not have it with the way the current party system works.