Oooh, time for a Holy War.

[venta]

Well, it looks like the computer glitch I've been complaining about really is caused by running Outlook.


I'd like to find a new mail client. So, I'd require it to do the following:
Allow me to read emails quickly (ie, minimal number of keystrokes/mouseclics to go from one to the next, delete mails, etc)
Allow easy filtering of messages (I don't speak procmail, though might be prepared to learn)
Handle attachments in a nice way (otherwise I'd just bite the bullet and use pine)
Preferably one which can be easily operated by keyboard alone.
Preferably one which will cope with the 'add comment' emails replying to LJ updates. Eudora doesn't (though that might be because it doesn't talk to IE)
Probably some other things I haven't thought of.

Any advice ?

At home I use the free version of Eudora, but am not entirely happy with it. I love the fact that you can rearrange its components to suit yourself (the list of mail folders belongs on the right hand side of the screen, dammit), and it does have many good things going for it. On the other hand, its error reporting is crap, and the handling of messages if you read them in the preview window is very poor indeed.

(For bonus points: explain why Outlook causes this problem :)

Comments

Re: Well, I like Outlook

[condign.livejournal.com]

OK, after a little research, this may be your problem. If it isn't, you don't get to bob me over the head or anything, OK?

Assume you have ICQ and it's running. If not, ignore my wibbling.

1) Open up the main ICQ contact list, click on Main, then Preferences.

2) Go to 'Contact List', then 'Shortcuts'. You should see if you have any keyboard shortcuts assigned. I'm betting that Ctrl-Shift-C, which is assigned to 'Check for New Email', and will steal the focus from damn near anywhere, has something to do with cutting and pasting in Emacs. (Either that or Ctrl-Shift-E, which is send mail.) This means you could:

• Get rid of ICQ (my suggestion, I hate the bastard)
  
• Turn off the keyboard shortcuts
  
• Change that particular shortcut to something more obscure
  
• Decide it's too much hassle
  

Key thing is that if this is the problem, changing your mail program won't solve it. ICQ integrates with your default Windows Email client--change your default client, and it's 'buggy' too...

My guess. As I said, don't shoot me if it's wrong.

Re: Well, I like Outlook

[venta.livejournal.com]

I don't really have ICQ running - I have jabber running, which allows me to communicate with people via ICQ. I don't believe jabber interfaces with my mail client; it doesn't appear to have keystrokes of its own defined, or anything like that.

There are a whole bunch of keystrokes which cause the problem - Ctrl-k, Ctrl-y, Ctrl-W, Esc-W are the main culprits.

The focus usually doesn't go to anything obvious, though occasionally Outlook pops up - my reason for blaming Outlook is simply that the problem doesn't occur if it isn't running.

I'm not going to shoot you (indeed, thanks for the suggestions) but I do think you're probably wrong ;)

Re: Well, I like Outlook

[wimble.livejournal.com]

You don't get Microsoft messenger running when you start Outlook, do you? I know nothing about it, other than I disapprove, but it might be causing the same effect (it'll show up in the icon tray if it is running).

If that is the case, it is possible to turn it off, although I can't work out how until I get back to my XP machine at home. But maybe you can.

Re: Well, I like Outlook

[condign.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I'm actually getting more enamoured of the theory that it's 3rd-party software causing the problem. I say this because the keystrokes you list above don't *do* anything in Outlook. Esc-W will close an IE browser window; CTRL-K is 'Check Names', which doesn't do anything unless the focus is on a mail window or appointment window; the rest I can't figure out what they do. But again, I can't replicate the error in any way/shape/form.

OK, now officially stumped and I'll shut up now. Though if you're looking to try something, there's some (probably a bit buggy) alphaware software out I've been meaning to try: http://www.dynamicobjects.com/index.html

Spaces looks like what Outlook would be if I lived in my ideal world--go ahead, take a risk, be a trendsetter. :)

Re: Well, I like Outlook

[venta.livejournal.com]

But again, I can't replicate the error in any way/shape/form.

Do you mean that you have no way, because you don't have emacs installed, or that you have tried, and been unsuccessful ?

(Did I mention it's an intermittent problem ? :)

Re: Well, I like Outlook

[condign.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't have Emacs installed, but if an application is grabbing focus, it should grab it from anywhere, unless it's a problem with Emacs. I've pulled up five different applications that either *do* or *don't* use the keystrokes you mentioned locally and tried to get Outlook to intercept them--it stubbornly refused to catch focus.

The fact that it's an intermittent problem leads me to believe that it has to do with 3rd party software running, but I could be wrong.

You could try turning Jabber on and off, and ICQ on and off, and see if it happens. These are programs that are designed to be 'intrusive'. I came across this problem because the keyboard shortcuts for Photoshop are the same as for ICQ, but ICQ intercepts them... hence 'grr... ICQ.' By the way, if the ICQ toolbar appears in Outlook, I believe you at least partially have ICQ running.

Re: Well, I like Outlook

[venta.livejournal.com]

if the ICQ toolbar appears in Outlook

The what ? Why on earth would you want one of them ?

(ie it doesn't :)

Re: Well, I like Outlook

[condign.livejournal.com]

ICQ (grr... argh...) installs it automatically, if I recall correctly.

OK, I may be wrong. Tell you what--can you send me a link to your version of emacs? If I get a chance today I'll try recreating the problem...

Re: Well, I like Outlook

[venta.livejournal.com]

That seems like rather a lot of trouble to be putting you to - and I also don't know, as I downloaded my copy of emacs from a server internal to Tao. To the best of my knowledge, this also only happens on XP.

Further details worked out since I posted this morning:

The problem seems to occur when emacs has the focus, and Outlook auto-collects new mail. Once I've looked at Outlook to let it know I know it has mail, the problem goes away. I'm going to try turning off the auto-collect and seeing if that helps.

Re: Well, I like Outlook

[condign.livejournal.com]

Ah. Try going to Email Options and Advanced Email Options and turn off mail notification instead. (I can imagine that if you're using what is basically a non-XP compliant piece of software and your mouse cursor changes--which is one of the notification options--you'll lose the focus. It might go to Outlook, but sometimes might not.)

Re: Well, I like Outlook

[venta.livejournal.com]

turn off mail notification instead

There's no option called that.

I tried this morning unchecking the box which tells it to briefly alter the cursor when mail arrives; didn't solve it.

Re: Well, I like Outlook

[condign.livejournal.com]

Hmm... yeah, I'd try checking the option that plays a sound as well. (Can't see why that would cause a loss of focus either. :()

Ah well. I'll try and find an Emacs program and play about a bit this afternoon...

Re: Well, I like Outlook

[venta.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I unchecked both those options.

Ah well. I'll try and find an Emacs program and play about a bit this afternoon...

Kind though the offer is, I really wouldn't bother. I think it's possibly a fine matter of version numbers / other imponderables. There's certainly at least one other person in Tao using XP/Outlook/emacs, and he has no problems.

Get back to your Japanese foodstuffs :)

Re: Well, I like Outlook

[condign.livejournal.com]

Get back to your Japanese foodstuffs. :)

You hate me, don't you?

Re: Well, I like Outlook

[condign.livejournal.com]

That seems like rather a lot of trouble to be putting you to

I am currently translating application specifications for Foods of Specific Health Use put forward by a Japanese ministry. You have no idea how much I need distraction. OK, I'd probably choose other distractions if they came my way, but I really need something to get this stuff out of my head soon. Otherwise my blood shall transmute to Yakult or something--a neat trick of transubstantiation, but look at what happened to the last person who made a habit of such tricks...