Dance with me, pretty boy, tonight

[venta]

New Year's day, when I was little, always began with heading up to my Grandad's house to watch the New Year's concert broadcast from Vienna. Watch on the telly but listen, of course, on Radio 3 because telly speakers were rubbish and the sound was broadcast simultaneously on the radio[*].

My earliest memories of the concert are of Grandad telling me about Lorin Maazel, who first conducted the New Year concert in 1980 and went on to become a fixture. To this day, if I hear the Radetzky March anywhere I'm back in my Grandad's front room[**], clapping along with the great and the good of Vienna.

Anyway, as I mentioned last year, I've been trying to reinstate watching the concert as a new year tradition and it seems to have stuck. Vital components of this tradition are: brunch (it was bagels, cream cheese and smoked salmon this year), dressing gowns, sofas, and an argument about how they synchronise the ballet performances with the music.

In case you've never seen it, the concert is a full orchestra playing Strauss in a ridiculously over-gilded concert hall in Vienna. Mostly the footage is of orchestrans, the conductor, the audience, the gilding, the flowers, and some more gilding. For a few pieces (only two, this year) they cut away to some far flung palace and show a short, costumed ballet to the music.

And so, the argument goes, how do they make the dancers, some miles away, match the music? ChrisC has always maintained that the ballet is pre-recorded, and the orchestra plays to a click track. I have always staunchly resisted this theory, on the grounds that no self-respecting conductor of the international reputation of, say, Daniel Barenboim would play to a click track. I don't know it is done, but that's not it.

Anyway, this year I was moved to ask the internet, and found a forum where someone was asking just that question, and someone had written to ORF (the Austrian broadcaster) to ask. The original forum post is here; it's remarkably helpful, except for the bit where an otherwise apparently sensible person describes a German e-mail as being written "in Nazi".

Anyway, it turns out that the orchestra's rehearsal in September is recorded, and the ballet choreographed to the studio recording. When the concert is broadcast, the audio we hear for the ballet is the pre-recorded audio. Once the viewer is returned to the concert hall for the next piece, we are back with the live audio. Which is why before and after the ballet there is always a static shot of (for example) some flowers, or a nice gilded cherub until the audio and video feeds can be synched again.

So there you are :)

[*] ChrisC doesn't believe me that the broadcast was genuinely simultaneous. As a kid, I probably wasn't astute enough to notice. Can anyone remember how in time it was? Could you see a fraction-of-a-second difference? Alledgedly Freeview and DAB are synched these days, but I don't know how to pick up Freeview (we usually use Virgin) to check.
[**] For logistical reasons, his front room was actually at the back.

Comments

[celestialweasel.livejournal.com]

How can Freeview and DAB be sync'ed? Surely different receivers (for the same thing) have different lags i.e. any given pair of 2 DAB radios won't necessarily have the same lag, and similarly for any given pair of Freeview receivers?

[venta.livejournal.com]

I admit I wouldn't expect Freeview and DAB to synch nicely, but Someone On The Internet Said So. I've never particularly experimented with determining lag, and the two DABs I sometimes have on at once are at opposite ends of the flat so the lag is not determinable by someone walking down the corridor :)

[celestialweasel.livejournal.com]

I shall try it at some point and report back.

[kotturinn.livejournal.com]

I suspect they are more or less synchronised (probably leaning towards the 'more') on account of similar processing. 'Old' analogue New Year's Day concert tended to more-or-less too, again leaning towards the 'more'. There could be a slight 'unsync' (it was always interesting watching individual player fingerings compared against phrase being heard) but yes, perfectly possible to utilise better speakers on the audio system while watching on the goggle box.

Now I have a digital TV and analogue radio receiver... Yes, I know... time to start to think about upgrading another bit of equipment. Ho Hum. When I were a lass.................................................

[qatsi.livejournal.com]

As far as I can recall, the analogue TV and analogue FM signals were always in sync - I thought (probably naively and incorrectly) that this was because they were analogue signals, i.e. without time-consuming digital processing. Last time I checked I didn't think Freeview and DAB were in sync, but I suspect that varies in part according to the processing speed of the receiving devices. It's no longer possible to rely on the Radio 4 pips (on DAB) - it's the end, I tell you.

[celestialweasel.livejournal.com]

"Remember, don't use your digital radio to set your digital watch" - otherwise known as presumably if you are listening on the web or on DAB the 4 minute warning will be a 3 minute x second warning.

[ringbark.livejournal.com]

Yes, afaik the analogue signals were in sync. Radio 1 regularly ran a "Sight and Sound In Concert" with stereo music on the radio and pictures on BBC2. (Rod Stewart and Caravan being the two I remember the best.) I don't know how I can set my watch now without calling the speaking clock. Even the pips on the radio can't be trusted if it's a digital station.
When analogue is switched off, will they still have the pips, as they will be meaningless by then.
On one occasion, when I was in Wembley but my son was in Wirral, we were both watching the same TV channel but on a digital network. There was a difference between the two of almost two seconds.
I also remember (before I went to the England games) that it was possible to hear the roar from the stadium, and look up to the television screen to see the goal scored.

[venta.livejournal.com]

I also remember (before I went to the England games) that it was possible to hear the roar from the stadium, and look up to the television screen to see the goal scored.

Although that specific case may not be relevant - don't broadcasters often deliberately introduce a small delay on live programs in case they need to bail in a hurry when someone begins shouting obscenities?

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Mm, as a kid I used to watch cricket on TV with the sound down but audio from Radio 3, back in the analogue days, and those synced perfectly. These days, that wouldn't work at all well; although as cricket is on inaccessible TV channels now it's a bit academic.

[exspelunca.livejournal.com]

If the clock on my DAB radio says 00.00 and I switch on, the R4 midnight news is already under way so its clock isn't in synch with its broadcasts. Resetting the clock isn't the answer. Last night, listening to R4 news on DAB,I switched it off; 30 secs later, it blared out some unknown "music" station. Don't ask what it was, I don't sleep with my specs on. But why??? Hutber's Law: improvement means deterioration.

[venta.livejournal.com]

so its clock isn't in synch with its broadcasts

Does the DAB set its own clock? Cos if so, that's definitely an improvement on old-school clock radios where you had to set it yourself ;)

I believe sammason had a lot of trouble recently with a radio that turned itself on in the night; I think hers had to be replaced, so I hope yours is not similarly on the way out.

[waistcoatmark.livejournal.com]

Dab has a time signal buried in the headers, independent of whatever's being broadcast. I'd expect it to be accurate to .1 of a second or so.

I spent several weeks tracking down a "why does my alarm go off in the middle of the night" bug which turned out to be caused by FM's RDS time having such poor error correction that it was possible to get a seemingly valid but actually wrong time from FM. Eventually fixed with a "only change the time if you get two consecutive times with the same offset to your current clock" logic

[bateleur.livejournal.com]

All this time's passed and nobody's claimed the kudo for the excellent Pull Shapes? Well in that case, I'll try for it myself! :-)

[venta.livejournal.com]

What do you do when the music stops?

Give someone a kudo :)

[bateleur.livejournal.com]

Hurrah! :-D