Who needs sleep? Tell me what's that for

[venta]

I mentioned in passing a couple of days ago that I had a very poor night's sleep one day last week. I was stopping at a friend's house, and I retired to bed in a sleeping bag on an air mattress.

It was a pretty comfy air mattress, and I settled down... and didn't go to sleep. I continued to not-go-to-sleep more or less until it was time to get up again.

This happens to me very occasionally, and usually only for a section of the night. I've never described it as insomnia; from what other people tell me, insomnia is unpleasant. I always think of it as asomnia - an absence of, or indifference to, sleep[*]. I don't toss and turn, I don't worry about things, I'm not unhappy about my lack of sleep. I'm warm, comfortable, relaxed and quite happy. I'm just... not asleep. I'd liken it more to the relaxing feeling of waking up at a weekend and knowing you don't have to get up yet.

The day after I was a little tired - and very ready for my bed by the time I got there at about 11pm - but otherwise fine. If I actually get very little sleep of a night, I feel absolutely rubbish the next day. When organising a rapper bash a year or two ago I was up doing things until half past four, slept badly, and got up at half six to help with breakfast. I spent the whole of the following day feeling very queasy, and very grumpy. I think I had to have a little lie-down mid-afternoon.

And so, I'm curious... does having been in bed, resting, mean I'm fit to tackle the next day? Or is it that, in between lying awake, I fitted in some decent chunks of sleep I didn't notice? Or even that when I believed I was awake, I was in fact asleep... Wikipedia has quite an interesting page on Sleep state misperception.

How do insomniacs feel about being awake in the night? I've always understood it to be an unpleasant state, but is that "just" because of the worry that you need to be asleep in order to tackle the next day?

I assume that if - say - someone was unable to sleep because of pain, that wouldn't be classed as insomnia. So do people who regularly fail to sleep "just" fail to sleep, or do they feel that there is something keeping them awake? I know some people talk about racing thoughts when trying to sleep, but I'm unsure whether they count that as a cause or an effect.

And, of course... does anyone else ever experience what I call asomnia?

[*] I tried to ask Wikipedia what the exact definition of the "a-" prefix was. It didn't go well.

Comments

[erming.livejournal.com]

I often seem to do that even in my own bed, and am usually fine though feel a little groggy the next day, feeling a little lightheaded as if still drunk. Which given alcohol can stop you sleeping might not be too far from the truth sometimes.

[venta.livejournal.com]

It does happen to me in my own bed, too, but I think probably more commonly when I'm sleeping away somewhere.

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

I get this, and insomnia, and inability to sleep through pain. I wish it meant that I could actually function on less sleep than most, but really it means that I get progressively more tired and then when I can sleep I sleep for a long time (last week I had a night where I was wide awake - and not at all tired - until 5am, dozed a little until 7am, then got up; the following night I slept from 11pm to 11am).

Insomnia is horrible. Asomnia is - meh, bit boring really, but inoffensive. Inability to sleep through pain is the worst because you are tired, you want to go to sleep - you even drift off from time to time - but you just can't get rid of the obstructions to sleep. However, having not slept at all for most of Friday and Saturday nights (pain), on Sunday night I slept for 6hrs quite comfortably and last night the same, even though the pain (on this occasion pleurisy) is actually worse than it was Fri & Sat. I assume that I am just that bit more tired, so I can sleep through the pain that was keeping me awake when I was less tired.

[venta.livejournal.com]

I actually regard asomnia as a rather pleasant state - but then I'm not lagging behind on sleep as it sounds you are.

For some reason I always regard pleurisy as a Victorian illness which people nowadays don't catch - I'm quite aware that it isn't, but I can't shake the association. It sounds most unpleasant and painful, though, so I hope you're feeling better soon.

If you don't mind me asking, what makes insomnia horrible? And how does it differ from just "not being asleep"?

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

It does sound rather Victorian, doesn't it? My mother had it a few years ago and I was surprised then that people "still got that". Now I know what it is and how it develops, I'm not in the least bit surprised. I think it probably goes undiagnosed quite a lot ("a chesty cough you can't shake off for weeks" might be pleurisy) because we self-medicate and don't bother GPs with it.

Insomnia, to me, is horrible because it's a fight. I've suffered since I was a small child being forced into sleep patterns that didn't suit me at all, so it's partly emotional. When I'm simply not tired enough to sleep, or just relaxed, that's fine. When I am so tired my eyes won't stay open long without watering, and my muscles are heavy, but there's no actual pain to keep me awake, then the only thing keeping me from sleep is my own brain. And the more I try to sleep the harder it fights me. That's why I call it horrible, because it feels like I am being sabotaged by myself. Being kept awake by pain is actually slightly easier from the mental/emotional POV, because at least I know why I am still awake (but it's still the worst because PAIN).

[venta.livejournal.com]

Ugh, I can see how that would be pretty frustrating :(

If you are tired, but need to get something done/finished/whatever, are you good at staying awake (on purpose) to do so? I was essaying a theory a while ago that most people are either good at sleeping (fall asleep easily, stay asleep, poor at staying awake when required) or good at waking (can stay awake for long periods, and can snap into wakefulness quickly, but also end up awake when they wish to be asleep). Do you think there's any mileage in that?

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

That's certainly true for me, yes. And for my dad, who doesn't have insomnia (and takes a lot of afternoon naps!) but can be awake at any hour he wants to be and be just as alert on a few hours sleep as he can on 8+. My mum is a sleeping person who, if she has to stay awake at an unusual time (e.g. catching an early flight), will doze off frequently and needs to be woken again. If it's dark outside, Mum needs to be asleep. She used to leave work at 3pm in winter, before she retired.

smallclanger is currently a sleeping person - once asleep he can be "woken" for coherent conversations but he doesn't remember them at all, and he could and would fall asleep in the middle of dinner or activities when smaller. Most small children do the "sleep anywhere anytime" thing, of course, but at his age I was definitely an awake person so I suspect he's taking after my mum.

[shermarama]

I'm not sure I fit in your theory. I've been reading with interest but not commenting on the rest of this thread because it's vanishingly uncommon for me to have trouble sleeping; I lie down, I go to sleep, I wake up however many hours it is later. But if I need to stay awake to do something in the middle of the night, I can do that, although I may need to have to make sure I get enough sleep the next night.

[sammason.livejournal.com]

'How do insomniacs feel about being awake in the night?'

That's probably different for each insomniac. I generally feel all rightish during the atseis. Sometimes I use the time productively. But it hits me the next day, usually in the early afternoon.

'I've always understood it to be an unpleasant state, but is that "just" because of the worry that you need to be asleep in order to tackle the next day?'

I try not to worry about that, or about anything. Worry is nearly always useless and sometimes counterproductive. But I think what you're asking is whether the knowledge of the next day's suffering is the whole of what's nasty in insomnia. For me it's not the whole but it's a big part. Insomnia can take over my life in a bad way.

'I assume that if - say - someone was unable to sleep because of pain, that wouldn't be classed as insomnia.'

That's a big assumption. I think you should ask people whose pain keeps them awake whether, to them, that's insomnia.

'So do people who regularly fail to sleep "just" fail to sleep, or do they feel that there is something keeping them awake?'

Again that's an individual thing. Much of the anti-insomnia advice is 'sleep hygiene' which usually means 'how to fall asleep'. I cynically call that 'warm milk, window blinds and whale songs.' For me, falling asleep is usually easy, but staying asleep (or returning to sleep after a pee break) can be impossible. After years of fending off the sleep hygiene advice - kindly meant but irrelevant - I worked out that the largest causes of my insomnia are about my digestion and my body temperature.

'I know some people talk about racing thoughts when trying to sleep, but I'm unsure whether they count that as a cause or an effect.'

For me, the racing thoughts are nearly always an effect of being awake. That can involve doing my best science in bed. It can also involve being plagued by horrible self-doubt and suicidal urges. I look for the physical cause, fix that if possible, and try to shrug off the self-doubt.

Occasionally, painful thoughts or feelings keep me awake. But not often. I take it as a hint that I need to fix something in real life.

'does anyone else ever experience what I call asomnia?'

No I don't think that I do. Except the classic 'pulling an all-nighter' for work, which I did in my student days.

[venta.livejournal.com]

Part of the reason for this post was the hope that people who do have difficult sleeping would tell me what it means to them. So thank you for your comments on how insomnia affects you.

That's a big assumption. I think you should ask people whose pain keeps them awake whether, to them, that's insomnia.

I had thought - from a quick skim through Wikipedia - that insomnia is a "sleep disorder", and thus someone who can't sleep due to external factors wouldn't be insomniac. However, I missed the bit about "insomnia secondary to another condition", which would presumably cover not sleeping due to pain. Also, as you say, if someone feels that label is appropriate to them then I'm not going to tell them it isn't!

Except the classic 'pulling an all-nighter'

That's quite a different beast!

[sammason.livejournal.com]

There was a telly documentary a few months ago, which appealed to me because it was about sleep.

But there was a psychologist or psychiatrist, I forget which, stating that 'insomnia is the most common psychological problem.' That p****d me off because it sounded like the old 'all in your head' insult, used to oppress mentally ill people and also to oppress people who don't conform in some way. Uppity women, for example.

The 'common psychological problem' judgement also involved assuming that the racing thoughts are a cause of insomnia, not an effect of it. They can be cause, effect or both.

The same documentary showed a reporter trying to find out how insomnia feels, by setting his alarm clock to wake him frequently during a night. I think he only did this for one night. He got as far as the 'How do people cope?' stage but no further. I felt like telling him that we cope because we've no fucking choice. As with any disability.

[venta.livejournal.com]

I'm interested that to you "psychological problem" has those connotations. I've always thought of it as a fairly neutral, medical term and hadn't realised people might see it differently.

Out of curiosity, how do you think it should be better described in that context?

[sammason.livejournal.com]

What irritated me was the assumption that insomnia is always, or nearly always, psychological.

[venta.livejournal.com]

The pedant in me notes that it's possible for insomnia both to be the most common psychological problem and for insomnia to have chiefly non-psychological causes, but I see your point. If that's the assumption the documentary was working from I can see how that would annoy.

[damerell.livejournal.com]

I did some reading on this a month or so ago and it seems pretty clear that, unless engaged in physical activity or being tortured by the CIA, people who think they were sleepless essentially always were actually sleeping in fits and starts. This is not to say you don't start to fall asleep while doing something physical, it's just that (eg) starting to fall off the bike wakes you up.

[venta.livejournal.com]

... though I think there's a big difference between "technically dipped briefly into stage 1 sleep" and "did some amount of sleeping that could be regarded as useful".

[sammason.livejournal.com]

Have you found sleep_disorders? It's a bit quiet on there but people seem pleasant. Except that (and don't quote me!) I've occasionally wanted to suggest that people seem to have got out of bed the wrong side ;-)

[ceb.livejournal.com]

I get this occasionally. Especially the first night in a new place, but occasionally at home. I have converted to it from insomnia by convincing myself that lying still and resting is *nearly* as good as being asleep anyway. Otherwise I just lie there and worry...

[venta.livejournal.com]

Interesting that you also mention the idea of it being in a new/unfamiliar place - I suspect that's true for me, but I'd never really noticed before. To be honest, I've never really thought about it much because (to me) it's not a problem. In fact, I find it quite a pleasant sensation occasionally.

I have converted to it from insomnia

Oh! Now that is also interesting. I've always wondered if that were possible, but never felt that suggesting it to an insomniac was either helpful or a good idea. Nice to know that has been possible for one sort of insomnia, for one person!

[ceb.livejournal.com]

Well, WFM, but as good advice goes it's up there with telling depressed people to "just cheer up". You probably will find *someone* that works for, but you might get hit a lot first.

[venta.livejournal.com]

Exactly, hence having never suggested it to anyone!

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

I've only had this a very few times, always when trying to sleep somewhere that's not comfortable enough or cold (eg. camping, crashing on floors) or too noisy (eg. airport). To me it feels quite different from my fairly common insomnia, which is characterized by the 'racing thoughts' thing.

The unpleasantness of insomnia (for me) is a mix: it's unplesant to have worries racing unproductively through your mind, without being able to think anything useful about them; and also it's annoying knowing I'll be groggy and useless the next day, which (if the next day has challenges) can itself become one of the racing worries.

I associate insomnia strongly with periods of general mental stress, whereas the asomnia thing you describe feel to me more physical/circumstantial in origin. Although I guess if I were to feel asomnia in my own bed on a routine night, it might possibly turn into insomnia if I thought about it.

[exspelunca.livejournal.com]

Insomnia is, to me, when I desperately want to sleep and can't; asomnia is a good word for what you describe but, in that state, you probably do sleep at intervals. On asomniac nights, I put on the World Service, using a pillow speaker, and will be diligently and happily listening to something then realise I've missed a huge chunk and a totally different programme is under way, even though I would have sworn I was awake. People sitting with the very ill notice this; the patient sleeps at intervals but will vow they've been awake all night.

[crankst-girl.livejournal.com]

I read somewhere credible (but forget the source) that four hours lying peacefully in bed is as good as one hour's sleep.