Back when I was 106, and my only friend was one goldfish

[venta]

I just regaled ChrisC with a story about the lowly position of empiricists at the French court in the 17th or 18th century. The story goes like this:

All the finest minds of the era were busy debating why a bowl of water should become lighter when you put a goldfish into it. The debate was heated and wide-ranging. Until someone came along and said, er, actually, I don't think a bowl of water actually does get lighter when you add a goldfish. Look, I have here a bowl of water, a fish, and some scales.

His comments were immediately discounted because, well, who would be so low as to actually try the thing?

Which is a lovely story. But when I went a a-googling to try and find out whether I really meant the French court, and which century, and whether the man with the scales was someone whom history remembers...

Well, I can't find any evidence that I haven't just made the whole thing up. I'm sure I remember being told it in school. Has anyone else ever heard this story? If you heard it from me, it probably doesn't count.

Comments

[sammason.livejournal.com]

I hadn't heard it until I heard it from you just now. But who am I to judge? This week I got chatting with somebody whose PhD was about a philosopher I hadn't heard of. 'He's a very famous French philosopher!' she said scornfully. I've since goofled him and he does sound interesting but hey, I did a PhD on one of the world's commonest parasites and I'm still explaining the word 'parasitology' to most people who ask about my PhD. As for people having heard of Toxo unless they know that pregnant women shouldn't change the cat litter, I wouldn't be so rude as to scorn anybody.

So I say, why should we have heard of the goldfish-weighing story? It's quite entertaining so thanks for telling us now.

[ringbark.livejournal.com]

On seeing the philosopher's name, my first thought was "oh, is he the pendulum guy?" But it wasn't - that was this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Léon_Foucault).

[sammason.livejournal.com]

That was my first response too. It led to the sarky reply about 'very famous'.

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

I've heard of both toxo and Foucault. (That one. I've even studied him briefly, but for literature reasons, not philosophy.) But I know bugger-all about lots of people/things that other people assure me are very famous - watching Sport rounds on Pointless with me is apparently hilarious - so it all works out in the end. :)

[venta.livejournal.com]

I'll join you in the sport-ignorant corner. Me and a few friends go to a couple of different local pub quizzes occasionally, and the thing that invariably lets us down is our football knowledge :) At a quiz last Sunday, four (of the ten) "in the news" questions were about football...

Of course, if we wish to take the quiz world by storm the answer is for one of us to learn about football, but we're all hoping the 'one' will be someone else.

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

I did once win a sport round in a pub quiz where I was on a team by myself (complicated reasons involving the quizmaster being my then-boyfriend's housemate and very good at Scrabble), simply by writing Arsenal for all the football questions, guessing at the only golfer I could think of, and knowing a little bit about horse-racing. 5 out of 10 was better than all the other teams managed. :)

[venta.livejournal.com]

We have our own personal standards for sport questions... for example, if the question is "Who scored the most goals in Premiership football this season?", then if we manage to name a Premiership striker we consider ourselves to have got it right[*]. Basically, we only need a plausible answer, not a correct one, to feel like we've succeeded.


[*] Not to the extent of actually marking it right and trying to claim the points, of course.

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

Yup - I similarly go with "well, I got the right sport at least" for Pointless questions even if I name the highest scoring person, extending it to "I've actually heard of him/her" for the Pointless answers. That is a moral victory, in my book.

[venta.livejournal.com]

I didn't understand a word of that, but now I have discovered that Pointless is a TV game show in which the idea is to name thing other people don't, thus scoring as a few points as possible. Is it interesting to watch if you don't like sport? I guess it would never occur to me to watch a sporty quiz as I'd expect to find it quite dull (though I guess I might learn stuff).

DId I mention that our second-weakest subject is television :)

[venta.livejournal.com]

D'oh, just realised you originally said "sport rounds", so presumably it's a general quiz, so my question is irrelevant.

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

*g* Yeah, I do pretty well on most rounds they have (yesterday I got three zero-scoring answers for "actors who have appeared in Star Wars films"), but sport is my Achilles heel and the main reason I would dread going on the show. :)

[venta.livejournal.com]

Er.... er... I'm poor at film questions, too!

[sammason.livejournal.com]

Yes I too know sod all about sport! And does this face look bovad?

[satyrica.livejournal.com]

I guess these things are relative to what you study! He's famous enough that being in thrall to him is a total cliche among students that deal with any kind of social, literary or epistemological theory (with good reason: I'm a shameless fan)- your parasite, however, would only elicit a Gallic shrug ;-)

[sammason.livejournal.com]

Unless the French person were a parent, or planning to be a parent. Iirc pregnant women are routinely screened for Toxo in France but that's not so here in Britain. Toxo is relatively prevalent in French people and that's probably due to eating lightly-cooked lamb.

[satyrica.livejournal.com]

sorry, i meant I hadn't heard of it, French parents may well be better informed!

[sammason.livejournal.com]

Oops I seem to have sounded a bit serious. This wasn't intentional. venta brings out my inner silly. Being English (are you?) I now think we should have a nice cup of tea.

[satyrica.livejournal.com]

mmmm tea :-)

[leathellin.livejournal.com]

Well I've heard of your parasite and not because of pregnant women and cat litter (I have also heard of it from a pregnant women who was a nurse and complaining about the vast list of do nots)

[sammason.livejournal.com]

What was per opinion about that list? I'm inclined to think that there'd be an outcry if women weren't given info and babies were harmed as a result.

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

Hey, I've heard of toxoplasma gondii! I think of it as 'that awesome mind-controlling one. No, the one that does rats. Not the one that does flies. Or the one that does crabs (though that one is also well cool). Yes, the one that may be involved in schizophrenia. That awesome mind-controlling one.'

...I may, of course, not be a representative sample :)

[sea-of-flame.livejournal.com]

Maybe you aren't a represesentative sample, but you are not alone (I went straight for the mind control factoid as well. We're cat people, see....)

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

I have this awesome book about parasites :)

To be fair, it's probably the kind of book where people who actually know the subject go '...they said what? But that's a total lie! And nobody's believed this bit since the 50s! And this bit is just pure sensationalism...' but I liked it :)

[sammason.livejournal.com]

Yes it's that one! When I started my PhD in 2006 I was telling people that they'd do well to get Toxo, hence to acquire immunity to it, if they're female so that they won't get a primary infection during any future pregnancy. But since then it's become clear that this wouldn't be good advice. The psychiatric implications (as you mention) are now well documented. Also it's now clear that long-dormant Toxo can reactivate itself when the immune system is down, making it a risk for anybody who takes immunosuppressant drugs (eg for organ transplants) and also making it a frequent cause of death in AIDS. So it's not only females who need to be concerned. It's a big issue for sheep farmers, too, and that's what my PhD was about.

I'm well proud to have been sharing an office with the (then) fellow PhD student who first found a biochemical explanation for the behavioural effects. She's a good scientist.

[venta.livejournal.com]

I didn't think you should have heard it :) Just that, here I was, regarding it as a key moment in philosophy that would be very famous, and it seems it may be more of a thing I have made up. I just wanted someone to assure me that it really was a real thing...

Which it looks like it may not be :)