One potato, two potato, three potato, four

[venta]

This is a question for anyone who has small children, hangs out with small children, or, I suppose, is a small child.

I suppose this question hangs on the idea that today's kids still play the sort of games which require them to choose who's "it", rather than just sitting around with PlayStations waiting for the relevant controller to light up.

At my school in the very early 80s, the standard method went:

Eeny meeny miny mo,
Catch a nigger by the toe,
If he squeals let him go,
Eeny meeny miny mo.

Interestingly ChrisC, who is around the same age as I am, reports that at his school they caught Tiggers by their toes. What did you catch ?

At the point at which I learned the rhyme, I had no idea what anyone meant by the word "nigger". In fact, for reasons best known only to a four year-old pysche, I promptly associated the rhyme with One, Two, Three, Four, Five and assumed that a nigger must be a kind of fish. No, I know fish don't have toes; if you're used to kids' rhymes and can happily cope with monkeys sleeping in bunks, dead men getting up to fight and the whole of existence being made of buttercream[*], fish with toes is a pretty small issue.

However, ideas about fish notwithstanding, I'm rather hoping that today children don't catch niggers. Do they catch something different ? Do they use a different rhyme altogether ?

Mind you, I'm fairly sure that we would have been prevented from using one our other standard rhymes for choosing, the rather graceless:

Ip, dip, dog shit
You trod in it

had anyone heard us. I guess we must have been careful not to say it in earshot of any staff; "shit", unlike "nigger", was a word you could get told off for.

Yes, I'm aware of The Lore and Language of Schoolchildren. But that's talking about an era that was already very outdated when I read it twenty years ago. I want to know what's happening now.

Of course, it's always possible that today's kids are smart enough to have realised that this method of choosing "it" is completely deterministic, and thus highly open to fixing. Plus, of course, tacking on the extra You are in and you are out or It was not you, it was you was always an option if the chanter didn't like the outcome.

So, put your spuds in...

Ibble, obble, black bobble,
Ibble, obble, out

[*] Admittedly, that one turned turned out to be a misunderstanding. Life is but a dream, apparently.

Update For those who don't want to trawl through comments, the menagerie of things which can be caught by their toes currently stands at: tigers, Tiggers, tinkers, nickers, rabbits, fish, spiders and pigs.

Comments

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

We (or other kids who actually played) did "catch a rabbit by its toe". Other people did not apparently learn this and accused me of racism when years later I went "Eeny meeny miney mo, catch a rabbit by its toe" to choose what meal to have in a restaurant.

[venta.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I'm trying to work out if that sounds familiar. I don't remember us having a polite alternative, but rabbit does ring a vague bell.

[valkyriekaren.livejournal.com]

We did "Ibble obble" and "Ip dip dip, my blue ship". We also had one about a monkey running across the country and having an unfortunate anus-related accident.

Even though we probably didn't know the word 'nigger', I think we probably still had a sense that 'eeny meeny' was somehow beyond the pale. I know some people gentrified it to 'tiger' though.

[venta.livejournal.com]

We also had one about a monkey running across the country and having an unfortunate anus-related accident.

Do tell, I don't know that one!

[valkyriekaren.livejournal.com]

There was a little monkey
ran across the country
fell down a dark hole
split his little arsehole
what colour was the blood?

Then the person it landed on had to say a colour (red, yellow, sky blue pink with yellow dots on), and the letters were counted out and the person it landed on was 'IT' or 'OUT' depending what the dip was for. Ridiculously easy to fix if you can count letters and number of people in the circle.

[venta.livejournal.com]

Hmm, yes, I remember the concept of having to choose an colour and it being spelled out. Can't remember the question, though - I'm pretty sure the monkey and I were not acquainted.

[marjory.livejournal.com]

Is it:

There was a little monkey, doing cross country, fell down a dark hole, split his little arsehole, what colour was the blood?

which was on the proscribed list with Ip dip.

There was also:

Mickey Mouse had a house, what colour were the bricks?

[the-alchemist.livejournal.com]

Oh, we had one that started:

Mickey Mouse,
In his house,
Pulling down his trousers...

But - perhaps thankfully - I can't remember what (if anything) came next.

[ar-gemlad.livejournal.com]

Eeny meeny miny mo,
Put the baby on the po

[venta.livejournal.com]

Ooh, that's a new one on me!

[ar-gemlad.livejournal.com]

Aha - just remembered the last bit.

Eeny meeny miny mo,
Put the baby on the po
When it's done,
Wipe its bum,
Eeny meeny miny mo.

[ar-gemlad.livejournal.com]

Alternatively,
When it's done,
Wipe its bum,
With a piece of chewing gum.

[(Anonymous)]

growing up in the mid 70s USA (Indiana), "Eeny meeny miny mo" was the main one, but "tiger" instead of "nigger" (despite the overtly racist nature of a large fraction of my home town's population). Indeed I never heard of the "nigger" version until moving to the UK in 2000 - it was first brought to my attention when someone was horrifically offended that I casually said "eeny meeny" to indicate that I didn't have a preference between two options.

My American nieces and nephews (ages 5-10) mainly use the same "eeny meeny" routine I used as a child. At least in front of adults. When it comes to rigging the outcome, they still use the same timeless methods (knowing the outcome and selecting the starting point accordingly, or more commonly, adding words at the end until it comes out right).

I did overhear one jewel of a choosing game on my last visit, which adds an element of variability (though not immune to the extra word trick). Something like this:

Turds, turds, in a pot
How many turds have you got?
[person gives a number]
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 and you are IT.

Obviously a cheater can delete the "and" or make other changes to rig the outcome.

-dv

[ar-gemlad.livejournal.com]

I must say, I've not been aware of racist undertones of 'eeny meeny' until this post!

[the-alchemist.livejournal.com]

I assumed 'nigger' was actually 'nicker', i.e. one who nicks stuff, a thief. I do remember thinking about it carefully, and also repeating the rhyme to my mum who was shocked, and told me why nigger was a bad word and why I wasn't to use it.

There was also a longer one:

Eeny meeny makaraka
Rare rye dominaka
Chipolata, lollipoppa
Om, pom, pear, puss
And you are not IT!

[venta.livejournal.com]

Ooh, interesting! I know that nonsense-y bit, or something very like it, but as the chorus of a song not a choosing rhyme.

Once long ago, there lived a funny man
His name was Ika-raka-ika-raka-ran
His legs were long and his feet were small
And he couldn't walk at all.

Eeny meeny ming mong ping pong chow
Easy veasy vacilleasy easy veasy vow
Eeny meeny makaraka rare rye
Chikaraka dominaka lollipoppa
Om pom push!

There are further verses about his wife and children, too, but I'm a bit hazy on them.

(Spelling entirely made up on the spot :)

At one point we may have caught kippers

[jiggery-pokery.livejournal.com]

Somewhere at my parents' house I have a double LP of a Cockney geezer singing childrens' songs of the genus arr. trad. which features a similar song that haunts me to this day:

Eeny meeny makaraka
Om pom pakaraka
Eeny meeny makaraka
Om pom push
Ip dip chibberdy dip
You clap your hands and you start to skip
Ip dip chibberdy dip
You can't hang around all da-ayyy
Eeny meeny makaraka (etc.)

It's worth a quick search for "om pom push" to find variants up and down the country, plus h2g2 has a page called "selection rhymes" which answers your original question with copious data. (Admittedly, from ten years ago.)

I understand that "Dick and Dom" had a game with a similar extended name at some point.

[sea-of-flame.livejournal.com]

Ditto on 'nicker', and lack of assumptions - I remember it being used in school without twitch factor, and I'm pretty sure even when tiny I knew n-gger was a Bad Word (precocious reader = getting Told about words pretty damn fast...I knew about whores years before I actually understood about prostitution, for example!)

I'm now trying to remember other rhymes - I know one ended "I see england, I see France, I see (x) in her underpants" which used to be a cue for X to jump into the rope (and risk exposure of knickers if the rope caught on her skirt!) ...It was something about going up and down stairs I think?

[floralaetifica.livejournal.com]

We used:

Eeny meeny miney mo
Catch a nicker by his toe
If he hollers let him go
Eeny meeny miney mo
Out you must go.

And we also had never heard of niggers. Or, indeed, hollering. Because of the hollering, I'd always assumed this rhyme came from America, so I'm surprised to hear the anonymous Indianan didn't use that version.

[stegzy.livejournal.com]

We caught pigs by their toes, obbled black bobbles and dip dip dipped a blue ship.

I'll check my copy of This when I find it again.

And this -> http://www.playgroundlaw.com/cgi-bin/browse.pl?sid=2012

Ip dip

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

We mostly used 'Ip dip', but a different version from you:

Ip dip sky blue,
who's It? Not you.
O U T spells out,
and out you must go.

(I think those last two lines were also how we ended 'One potato', but I can't remember.)

But our 'Eeny meeny' caught a tinker by his toe. It wasn't until much later that I even knew there were other versions.

We sometimes used to use those flexing folded paper things (you know what I mean, there's probably a word for them) to work out who was It, but iirc it took ages.

Alternatively, the sweaty red-faced kid who looked permanently on the verge of frustrated tears was It.

Re: Ip dip

[celestialweasel.livejournal.com]

Apart from being 'so out you go' this is the one I knew.

[mister-jack.livejournal.com]

We did Eeny miney but with tiger instead of nigger. I later learnt the nigger version but with the advisory is was rude but still no idea what a nigger was.

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

I parsed it as catchanigger for a while, then catch-an-igger. It didn't matter that it was nonsense, for the same reason you give.

smallclanger actually just told me that the version he knows is "eeny meeny miny mo, catch a fish by its toe". But the one they actually use is "ip dip do, Daddy had a poo, Mummy didn't like it, out goes you". We knew the ip dip version you mention, although the second line was who trod in it.

Lore & Language of Schoolchildren being out of date? That makes me feel very old because most of the Oxfordshire/Bucks/Berks stuff in it was still absolutely current when I started school in 1977!

[venta.livejournal.com]

I'll rephrase: L&LOS might be out of date - it was published in the late 50s, and although lots of it was current in the early 80s I have no evidence whether or not it still is. Hence enquiring :)

[venta.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I wonder if I'd heard about catching fishes by toes from somewhere and that's where my mental leap came from. I'm really only retrofitting the argument that it came from an association with catching fish alive.

[lnr]

One I remember is:

ip dip doo
the cat's got flu
the dog's got chickenpox
so out goes you

Others we used included ip dip dip and one-potato two-potato, I can't recall what version of eeny meeny we used to use though.

I've no idea what small children do these days I'm afraid

[keris.livejournal.com]

We caught spiders by their toes...

[ylla.livejournal.com]

Eeny meeny miny mo
Catch a tigger by the toe
If he squeals, let him go
You are not going to be it

And eetle ottle black bottle, eetle ottle out, and Mickey Mouse had a house, what colour was it?
(I think these days he's in his house, pulling down his trousers, which he wasn't when I knew it).

Can't think what else.

[bateleur.livejournal.com]

Like ChrisC, we all caught Tiggers back in the day (strictly the E.H. Shepard originals mind - none of your Disney nonsense).

Hippo doesn't often play tig, but when he does no choosing method is required since he'll take anyone's word for it concerning who should chase and be chased.

Bea and her crew have choosing rhymes too numerous to enumerate (and often loaded with pop culture references). "Ip Dip Dog Shit" still exists, but in mutated form where it ends "You Are Not It!" and is then repeated until only one person remains. They also still catch Tiggers/Tigers. Interestingly, "One potato, two potato..." is apparently used as a choosing rhyme. Whilst I often chanted this rhyme I'm pretty sure it was never used that way when I was little.

[venta.livejournal.com]

...and often loaded with pop culture references...

Should any happen to pop into your mind, I'd be curious to hear them... I don't remember any such things from my days. I do remember rhymes I'd either learned from my mum, or which were bizarrely hanging round long after their current-by date, featuring people such as Shirley Temple and Charlie Chaplin, though.

One, two, three a-lairah,
I saw my Aunty Sarah,
Standing at the door-a-lairah,
Kissing Charlie Chaplin

[triskellian]

We had an even ruder version of 'Ip, dip, dog shit':

Ip, dip, dog shit
Fucking bastard
Dirty git
[Duh, duh, duh, duh] you

Although, obviously, I can't remember the last line. I'm pretty sure we didn't know what 'fucking', 'bastard' or 'git' meant.

[beckyc.livejournal.com]

That's got me laughing so much I'm getting funny looks!

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Heh, that's hilarious. I hate to think what the [duh, duh, duh, duh] might have been.

[beckyl.livejournal.com]

Tiggers were caught by toes, Ible Oble Black Bobble, Ibble Obble Out, nonsesnse chant a la the alchemist rang lots of bells with me.

As I recollect though, I almost always spent break times reading on my own rather than playing in any games that required the identifying of one out of many as 'it'.

[beckyc.livejournal.com]

That reminds me. Peter Jackson is remaking The Dam Busters and there's a big old hoo-haa about what they'll call the dog.

[broadmeadow.livejournal.com]

I recall it as "catch a nipper by the toe". "My day" was some while before you and Chris; it's quite probable I recall it that way because I naively mis-heard it.

Wikipedia has some nonsense about it, of course: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eeny,_meeny,_miny,_moe

[failmaster.livejournal.com]

Ip dip dip
My blue ship
Sails on the water
Like a cup and saucer
O-U-T spells out!

We also had a more complicated one, where everyone started with their right feet in a circle:

Dot. If your shoe is dirty
Please change it at once.

If the finger was pointing at your shoe at the end you swapped for the left. You weren't out of the running until this had happened a second time.

We used 'spider' after 'nigger' was reclassified as a Rude Word.

[exspelunca.livejournal.com]

Bit late but .. "when I started school" (to quote a previous post) in 1945, nigger wasn't politically incorrect and nigger brown was still an advertised colour.
But.. Eena meena mackaracka/Air oh dominaca/Alapaca, juvenacka/Om tom tush was a counting out rhyme when I moved to a North-East school in 1951, as was Dip dip, my little ship/Sailing on the water/Like a cup and saucer/You are not it (which meant repeating it until only one person was left).