Mein Hut, der hat drei Ecken.

[venta]

OK. Let's talk about hats.

On Saturday, I am bidden to a wedding where the invitation suggested the wearing of "prepostorous hats". There are many forms of prepostry, but I was hoping to acquire an over-the-top posh hat.

Sadly, I have failed. Being too mean to shell out for decent millinery, I have been trawling charity shops. I have found many, many hats answering the description.

Not a single one fitted me. Hats, these days, are simply not designed to be worn by someone who has long hair, and has it "up". Which, if I were going to a posh-hat-worthy occasion, I would have. I had the same problem earlier in the year when seeking a non-prepostorous hat for a wedding.

If you watch - say - the Rupert Everett film of An Ideal Husband then the female characters are constantly donning a stream of stunning hats. They all have their hair up, and the hats are worn tipped forward over the face and secured with pins. I want a hat that does that, and I've no idea how to find one.

Earlier in the year I found exactly that shape of hat in Debenhams. It was available in white, cream or black, a coquettish tipped-forward number with a froth of veil. Then I realised: it attached to the head via a broad and clearly-visible Alice band. In fact, it looked completely ridiculous.

I did locate one which was almost-suitable in Oxfam this lunchtime. Sadly, it was a little too small and also virulently pink. Basically, it was like a normal broad-brimmed hat, but the crown was very shallow such that it perched on the very top of the head. It had a narrow black elastic which I assume was intended to put under my chin; I'd have removed that and bought a nice hat-pin and perched it at a much more jaunty angle. However, it was too small and I don't think it would look right with what I'm planning to wear.

So, oh LJ, help me. Some of you might have the same problem: what sort of a hat does one wear with an up-do ? Where do I find coy, tippy-forward Edwardian hats (or, more accurately, copies thereof) ? What do I call hats of that style, or hats with a shallow brim-draft, such that I can search for them online or on eBay ?

Yes, I have considered fascinators. In fact, that was my solution earlier in the year and will very probably be my solution on Saturday. They're all very well in their way, but they're hardly hats.

Comments

[sushidog.livejournal.com]

I think the elastic goes around the back of your head, rather than under your chin!

[venta.livejournal.com]

Er, that would look a bit less silly. I still think hat pins are better, though.

[taimatsu]

Vintage shops might have something of the sort, but not likely in Oxford.

It seems to be the late Victorian period as well as the Edwardian which really went for the big hair and small, tipped-forward hat thing - see here. Perhaos widen your search to both periods?

If you can find a felt or fabric hat of an appropriate shape you might be able to alter the brim to the shape you want. Alternatively, buy something with a stupid alice band, remove it from the band, and attach it with a hat pin (which, if all else fails, you can buy from a craft shop like Hobbycraft and decorate yourself with a couple of beads to match your outfit or the hat).

[taimatsu]

This sort of thing any good to you? It has no alice band, at least...

[venta.livejournal.com]

Something like that, yes. The trouble is that that's black (so hasn't photo'd well) and I have very little grasp of millinery. So I don't feel like I've really got a very good feeling (even having read the description) of exactly what that's like.

Until I become better versed in these things, I'd feel happier meeting hats in person before I commit to them :)

[the-alchemist.livejournal.com]

I would tend to alter my hair rather than the hat. Sometimes I wear it in a low bun, so the hat brim goes above it; sometimes in a high bun, under the crown of the hat; sometimes in two plaits crossed over my head - these are so flat that hats fit over them OK, but if you have thicker hair you might need four plaits.

[venta.livejournal.com]

It sounds like you have rather more hair-dressing ability than I do :) I'd like to claim that my hair is hard to manage, but actually I fear it's more lack of eptitude on my part.

Low buns always seem to be pulled down by their own weight. However, I suspect you of having longer hair than I do, and my hair's not that thick, so it doesn't sound like a problem with the style so much as with my execution.

Maybe I need hairdressing lessons, not hat shops. I wonder if hairdressers would actually offer such things.

[sea-of-flame.livejournal.com]

Good old-fashioned hair pins! (They look like kirby grips, but are a bit longer & bent permanently open)

There's a definite knack to pinning with them, because you don't use them anything like kirby grips...not sure whether I can describe without hand-waving though.

Um. Plait your hair up & coil into place. Hold steady with one hand, because you need the other free to grab pins. You need to take each pin so the looped end of it (the bottom of the U, if you like) is towards the middle of the bun (or equally, on the smooth side of a french twist/chignon), with the open end/points facing *out* towards the edge of the bun/twist. Push the grip in at about a 45 degree angle, until the points hit your scalp. The aim here is to catch the outer edge of the hair arrangement as you push the grip through, but without overshooting too much. Then comes the clever bit - you rotate the grip through the resultant 135 degrees, pivoting on the points - so the grip is now flat against the head, pointing *in* towards the arrangement. When you then slide it into place, the grip will be completely invisible under the arrangement of hair, but will have anchored the edge of the bun.

Or, in a very poor attempt to do ascii illustrations...the : shows the open end of the grip - I'm afraid I can't fit enough lines in to show how the hair on the scalp gets 'grabbed' but hopeffully it's enough to show what I mean by the rotational stuff!

1/           /
            /
           /
        __:_____
        \      /         ...BUN or WHATEVER
_________\    /_________ ...SCALP!

2/          
           /
        __/_____
        \/     /
________:\    /_________


3/          
      
        _______
    ____\_..   /
_________\    /_________

4/          
           
        _______
        \____../
_________\    /_________

[venta.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, I know all about hair pins. My mother wore her hair in a bun every day until about ten years ago. I know the theory. I've tried it. My bun still falls out.

When I do put my hair up now I use the grippy kind, as I just can't get any decent results from proper hair pins.

Nice ASCII, though :)

[venta.livejournal.com]

I have had a theory in the past that the reason I fail at this is because my hair is completely uncurly. If I've crimped my hair it's so much easier to put it up (but I look like an early 80s throwback). Most curly-haired people don't seem to appreciate how much easier they have it :)

I believe your hair is very straight, though, so I'm surprised that this approach works for you.

[ulfilias.livejournal.com]

Suzi has a collection of hats and was/is? always on the look out for them. Department stores are good, as are things like TK Max, anywhere thats a little odd. One of my favorites was nicknamed the Mad Chicken had and was a simple black afair with *LOADS* of shot green feathers, was an absolute stunner if you had the head to wear it.

[venta.livejournal.com]

I fear Suzi is probably more hattable, not having long hair :) However, I have to drive past TK Maxx on the way home from work tonight so I may go and frolic in their hat department.

[ulfilias.livejournal.com]

She has been growing her hair and its reasonably long. I belive yours is a fair bit longer though.

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

I have a very bright blue-with-black-ribbon hat which worked well over my up-do hair last time I wore it anywhere posh.

It is however very bright, and is more regularly hat-shaped than the things you describe. However, if it will do, I'll happily lend it to you.

[venta.livejournal.com]

Thank you very much for the offer, but I fear if it's hat-shaped I'll fail. It's sounding like the fault is rather with my hair dressing than with the milliners of the world.

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

*nod* It tends more to the 'upside-down bucket' school of millinery than the average straw boater type, but yes, definitely a hat rather than anything else. Oh well. I have a particularly ugly lilac chiffon one should you ever want an ugly hat, rather than a preposterous one. :D

[mr-tom.livejournal.com]

Presumably in the post-Ascot haze, Big Silly Hats appear all over t'eBay and what have you.

[venta.livejournal.com]

What, they appear here (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=tebay&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=25.006602,67.675781&ie=UTF8&ll=54.433211,-2.591228&spn=0.023913,0.06609&z=14)?

;)

The problem with eBay is that you don't get to try it on, and the problem with Ascot hats is that they're often so pricey that even on eBay they're a bit painful.

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

Try: merry widow, pompadour.

[snow-leopard.livejournal.com]

ebay!
My Mum's amazing hat from out wedding was an ebay purchase. I'd offer you the loan of that hat, but sadly it has not been sold on.

[stripey-cat.livejournal.com]

Modern hats are designed to be worn square on the head (or possibly tipped slightly backwards), relatively low across the forehead. That's the current fashion (well, in so much as big hats are fashionable). You can dress your hair low on the neck, as someone suggested, but you need it brushed smooth over the crown so it fits.

If you want one that'll go on top of big hair, you need to either look at vintage/replica hats from periods when hair was dressed up and bulky, or have custom work done. I'm thinking there's no time for the latter (and no budget unless you've got the skills yourself). Try late C18th (for the broad-brimmed, Gainsborough styles) or slightly earlier for more masculine riding hats, and various periods of the mid-C19th - early C20th for a variety of smaller hats, some perched flat and others tilted forwards. 1940s hats were often pinned above a roll of hair, and probably your best bet for actual vintage rather than replicas. If they have elastic, it's intended to go under a relatively low bun - it doesn't work well with more elaborate styles, and slips off higher up the head, but you can always cut it off a replica or tuck it up into an actual antique.

The headdresses attached to alice bands or small skull-caps do work quite well if your hair is curly and you dress it to hide the foundation - think of them as part of your hairdressing rather than a hat and you'll be on the right track. If your hair (like mine) won't hold a curl, or you want it dressed smoothly, you can carefully disassemble the headdress (maybe attach it to a smaller foundation to keep it in place) and pin just the decoration into your hair.

[venta.livejournal.com]

You can dress your hair low on the neck

Thereby hangs the problem: I can't. I'm sure one can but I personally have had no success with that at all :)

I'm disinclined to buy actual antiques (even 40s if I can avoid it) for reasons of expense and fragility. I was hoping that there might be out there, somewhere, a good source of replicas - for period renactment, if nothing else.

Thanks for the advice. I'm not actually expecting to get my hat issues sorted out for Saturday, this was more intended as a long-range enquiry for future occasions :)

[stripey-cat.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure - there are companies that sell replicas but I've never bought one. I've also found some shops (sadly none locally) that have 20-50s vintage pieces for the sort of money you'd spend on a new hat in a department store. From that period, a hat in good condition is quite wearable, although silk will be degrading by now.

There are patterns available for cloth hats (as opposed to blocked felt or straw etc.); Vintage Vogue has (as you'd expect) original designs, and some of the other big four have hats in their fancy-dress ranges. You could also try some of the smaller companies that specialise in historic costuming - my brain is blank re: names at the moment, but Google knows all.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

I was going to say: cut off the alice band and pin it on, but lots of other sensible people said that first. So I shall just say: I'm not sure if I've ever seen you with your hair up properly, but I imagine it looks very nice. Pictures please!

[venta.livejournal.com]

Yes, I should have said in the original post that I'd considered removing the alice band but (a) in this particular case it was pretty integral and (b) I vaguely resent paying £40 for something I'm going to massacre and throw away half of.

I'm surprised you've never seen me with my hair up. Will attempt to provide a picture of me at the weekend.

[floralaetifica.livejournal.com]

What on earth is a fascinator?

[john-the-hat.livejournal.com]

Something kind of pretty which you wear on top of your head... Generally consists of wire and feathers...**grins**

[venta.livejournal.com]

Basically what john-the-hat said. Something based around a hairslide/clip which you can attach to your hair to give the general impression of hattiness. The one I bought earlier this year is based around a hair comb, and is made of cream and black net flowers and some spoingy feathery sticky-out bits.