Politicians hide themselves away, they only started the war

[venta]

This morning, on the Today programme, I heard various people talking about the NATO troops' actions in Afghanistan. Someone, I forget who, commented that the fighting in the South was "at close quarters, bayonets fitted".

Which staggered me. I maybe haven't been paying as much attention as I should to the fighting in Afghanistan, but the idea that a 21st century soldier is still using a bayonet (I assume it wasn't just a figure of speech ?) had never occurred to me.

Mind you, I also heard a former US Ambassador to NATO describe certain member countries' refusals to commit troops to the most dangerous areas as "pesky". Which was nearly as incredible.

Comments

[ewx.livejournal.com]

If your enemy can call in air strikes, or is merely much better equipped with long-distance weapons than you, then you have a pressing incentive to get close in before revealing your attack...

[zotz]

Bayonets are still issued, yes, and used too. Some fighting's at very close range, especially inside buildings. The same applies to gunfights more widely - I saw an FBI figure for the average range of a gunfight in the US. Less than three feet, I think.

Personally I'm very happy to be in an area without many guns.

[venta.livejournal.com]

The same applies to gunfights more widely - I saw an FBI figure for the average range of a gunfight in the US. Less than three feet, I think.

This is exactly why I was surprised at the use of bayonets. I'd have thought guns at three feet inside a building were a liability[*], but given that that's how they are used I'd have expected the US army (which is mostly who's fighting in South Afghanistan) would choose guns for everything in preference to pointy bits of metal.


[*] like there's a way in which a gun isn't.

[zotz]

Some guns are designed to be used inside, and not just pistols either.

In my limited understanding, a bayonet is still good if you need to reload, and has a strong psychological effect on the poor sucker the weilder is bearing down on.

[bateleur.livejournal.com]

There's an economics element to it all, of course.

If you wanted to kit a soldier out to be optimally effective for close fighting of this kind there'd be no bayonets to be seen. If, on the other hand, you want to give each soldier one set of cheap-as-possible equipment to cover every scenario whilst keeping your logistics as simple as possible then bayonets make a lot of sense. ("Take two weapons into combat instead of one? Not me. I just want to stab and go!")

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Maybe too soldiers are happier having a length of pointed steel to which they can resort if their guns jam, ammo runs out, etc. Even if they never actually have to use it.

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's really about cheap - soldiers carry a vast quantity of stuff around them, so weight and bulk are serious limiting factors on equipment. Unless you can design a lightweight telescoping spear, bayonets surely aren't far off best-of-breed...

[bateleur.livejournal.com]

Good use of "surely"! ;-)

If it was me I'd hate to use a bayonet. The resulting composite weapon is heavy, too long for close fighting and the opponent can safely grab it along most of its length. (Possibly soldiers feel differently due to having the option of unarmed fighting as a followup, at which I suck irretrievably!)

[mrlloyd.livejournal.com]

They're widely reckoned to be very scary things to face (admittedly most of my evidence comes from the Napoleonic period), and have the advantage of being attatched to the large gun you're already carrying. Of course just because the enemy are close enough that you take the precaution of fitting a bayonet doesn't mean you're going to use it.

I remember seeing one report of a bayonet used in the Iraq war - that it got reported suggests it's still a very rare event.

The only forces who use other melee weapons these days are very specialised. I can think of the Commandos and other special forces who use commando knives (painted black so they're invisible in the dark) and the Ghurkas who use bloody great Kukris and are the only people trained to throw away perfectly good assault rifles if the enemy get too close.

I think one of the key things is that they're very easy to use.