Freedom of expression doesn't make it all right

[venta]

These days, if you mention the words "identity cards" and "human rights' violation" in the same sentence you can be reasonably sure that a good chunk of the UK will froth righteously along with you.

Yesterday, the BBC ran a story on the threat of strike action from Tube workers over plans to introduce workers' identity cards.

Now, I'm coming to the conclusion that the RMT will strike over practically anything at the moment, so it didn't particularly surprise me.

However, I was surprised by this:

The union fears the card would include fingerprint recognition and could be used to discipline staff in disputes about clocking on and clocking off times.

"It is a gross infringement of human rights to use such a card to clock on and we will resist it," he said.

I don't understand. As far as I can tell, that's a perfectly normal clocking on/off system, such as has been in use in thousands of workplaces for decades. Obviously workers will resist - who'd want to hand their boss a foolproof method of demonstrating how often they're ten minutes late for work ? But the RMT's justification for their stance eludes me.

Now, I'm aware that something having been considered "normal" for years doesn't actually mean that it isn't a violation of human rights. But really - can anyone explain to me how such a card scheme would constitute such a violation ? Does wanting to check that your employees are who they say they are, or that they're working the right hours, actually risk infringing their rights ?

Is the RMT just hoping that they can file this issue under the general ID Cards debate, and praying that enough woolly-minded liberal types will back them out of solidarity ?

On a completely irrelevant note, the mother (who is always better informed than I) tells me that a Goth Eucharist is scheduled to take place at Whitby on Sunday. She didn't mention which church, but I assume it'd be St Mary's (ie the one at the top of the steps near the Abbey).

Can anyone tell me what on earth a Goth Eucharist is ? Aside from quick jokes about the transubstantiation of cider and black, what is the difference ? Presumably the implication is that no one will bat an eyelid if you go for communion in a corset, but apart from that... is it anything other than a name to let visitors know they'd be welcome ?

I've been to "folk services" there during Whitby folk week, which usually just means that the music is more folk-orientated than normal. The prospect of a goth service on the same lines makes me quail. Can anyone shed any light ?

Comments

[kneeshooter]

Goth Eucharist on tour to St Marys. But without power for the PA apparently.

[blackmetalbaz.livejournal.com]

goth_eucharist, organised by sebastian1971 in Cambridge. He's taking it up to Whitby. Opinion on the subject is mixed.

[kauket.livejournal.com]

Errr, a violation of the right to a private and family life? Maybe?

I assume the infringement they are referring to is the fingerprint taking rather than the cards themselves. Brief, boring law bit.

Article 8(1) European Convention on Human Rights protects the right to a private and family life. Technically, taking 'biological' data on an employee is a breach of the right to a private and family life, as I have just had to research in relation to taking blood samples from employees to test for drugs. However it's a right that can be breached under Article 8(2) where there is jutification for the policy on grounds of national security, public health and safety, protecting the rights of others.

I found that drug testing employees was justified in every case I found (and if you find any against this conclusion please don't tell me) as protection of the public.

I could see the same situation applying to these ID cards and fingerprints. I can see public safety being a similar justification for using ID cards for tube staff, it's a relatively small infrigement which is potentially useful in protecting the public; knowing who your staff are, checking there's noone dodgy pretending to be staff etc.

Also, fuck off and don't keep being late for work. I think the 'checking we're not late for work' argument that the union is raising is just a bit bollocks, employers could very easily do this in a number of ways. In my mind, checking employees are not constantly late for work is also not unreasonable for an employer to do.

So yes, perhaps it is something of an infringement to make them have ID cards. But it's a crap argument they are trying to raise, it would be unlikely to stand up in court, and (as you said) both clocking in/out and staff ID are standard policies for a lot of employers.

The problem is, that every man and his dog claims that all number of things are a 'violation of human rights' and the more the phrase gets used, the less value it has (see also 'weapons of mass destruction'). Something pissing you off a bit doesn't mean it violates your human rights. Or even if it does, it doesn't mean it's not a perfectly reasonable policy.

Perhaps more humerously, the bf is watching the Arsenal game on TV (playing at Highbury) and a squirral has invaded the pitch. The ref looked a bit pissed off. (Oh no, breach of his human rights!)

[venta.livejournal.com]

But we have to consider the rights of the squirrel...

Ahem.

Thanks for the law bits - I am not very aware of these things, and feel I should give at least a little consideration to the law and its application as opposed to my own knee-jerk reactions.

The problem is, that every man and his dog claims that all number of things are a 'violation of human rights' and the more the phrase gets used, the less value it has.

Yes. That was rather my thought too - when people are continuously bleating about human rights it does make some of the rather more shocking rights abuses lose impact.

[wechsler.livejournal.com]

It's the RMT. *Any* reason is good enough to strike over; to the extent that any genuine cause, such as safety issues or privacy, are immediately compromised as soon as the RMT put their name to it.

[jiggery-pokery.livejournal.com]

As sympathetic as I am towards unions at large and socialist causes: got it in one, sir.

Fingerprint recognition might be the only contentious part; although not foolproof, it seems hard enough to cheat and requiring of relatively little equipment to the point where it's a good solution. I wouldn't mind if work swapped our current identity card system for something as easy-to-use, clean and quick based around fingerprints, for instance.

[diffrentcolours]

it seems hard enough to cheat

Articles I've read in security-related circles (such as Bruce Schneier's blog) suggest otherwise. There are also implications concerning the abuse of the data that the company holds, since it can be used to generate false fingerprints which can impersonate you.

[ewx.livejournal.com]

How do you propose to keep your fingerprint secret from the ill-intentioned? Once they've got it, how are you going to go about revoking your fingerprint?

[davefish.livejournal.com]

I shall do all in my power to not let them chop my fingers off.

[davefish.livejournal.com]

Lets face it, the RMT are custom built for whinging (With apologies to lee_chaos.

The goth eucharist is the thing that seems to be filling up the boot of my car alarmingly.

What time are you likely to arrive tomorrow?

[venta.livejournal.com]

You've got a Eucharist in your boot ? Scary.

What time are you likely to arrive tomorrow?

Don't you talk to that keris person ? We sorted it all out ages ago :) I'll be arriving late, though hopefully in time for last orders.

[davefish.livejournal.com]

I'm worried about it starting a fight with the New Rocks. Seeya soon.

PS should have some camera gear for you.

[bateleur.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure what the union's argument is supposed to be, but I do sometimes get kinda grumpy when employers take a "bums on seats" attitude instead of measuring actual productivity.

[davefish.livejournal.com]

That depends on what they are doing. For creative tasks then productivity is important. Other tasks (lifeguard at a swimming pool for example) need a bum on a seat or in the water in case of emergency.

[bateleur.livejournal.com]

Indeed, but in that case I'd like to think there was something making sure this was the case besides a biometric card scanner !

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

A bum scanner maybe?

[condign.livejournal.com]

On the other hand, measurement by proxy is normally useful when (a) the cost of measuring the proxy is lower than the cost of measuring the underlying factor; and (b) it's fairly easily assumed that the relationship between the proxy and the underlying factor is significant. In the case of clocking on, that's fairly clear in any situation where individuals work in teams where one person can't function unless another one is there. (The standard example: if an assembly line will run far less efficiently if not fully-manned, then someone showing up late for work slows down all other employees, especially since the process must be started and stopped when they eventually show up.)

True, one could measure each worker's productivity and try to allocate incentives based upon that, but at least for dealing with this particularly problem, clocking on is probably the most profitable method of ensuring output. This is, of course, one reason why members of teams that don't have such dependencies tend to (a) belong to organizations with much looser timekeeping regulations and (b) consist of salaried members.

Anyway, for any hourly employee, fearing that ID cards could be "could be used to discipline staff in disputes about clocking on and clocking off times" seems nonsensical in the extreme. Clocking on and off is used for paying wages, and thus the claim quickly dissolves to "this system could be used to prevent us from committing fraud." How horrible.

[venta.livejournal.com]

For some jobs both are important - if your job is to be there selling tickets at 9am, it doesn't matter how effectively you do it if you don't arrive till half past.

In many jobs it really doesn't matter so long as you get the work done, but for things relating to the movement of trains timing is pretty critical. I don't care how good my tube driver is, I want my tube to go on time!

[(Anonymous)]

Knowing who's where and doing what is also important to a company's financial viability, with apologies to those who don't like private enterprise. Fleet Street went down the pan badly because employees of one lot worked casual shifts for the others under such names as Mickey Mouse, AND NO-ONE CHECKED.

[condign.livejournal.com]

Is the RMT just hoping that they can file this issue under the general ID Cards debate, and praying that enough woolly-minded liberal types will back them out of solidarity ?

You've pretty much got it.

And I'm strongly with Kauket on this one: the more people--normally woolly-minded liberal types, but with depressingly increasing frequency those on my side of the aisle--invoke "human rights," the less value it has. Still, for all that this madness seems bad for the RMT, the German unions are, IMHO, far worse. I remember trying to implement some very simple systems to, for instance, agree deadlines and help project teams share documents. Because they might possibly be used to measure productivity (we had no such intention), they violated the rights of workers. I'm sure if I'd had to listen wrong enough, I'd have heard how these were fundamental human rights.

[neilh.livejournal.com]

My brief encounters with such timeclock systems suggest they're good for the employer to stop 'buddy-punching', and that they're actually quicker than most other timeclock systems. Doubtless there are reasons why the unions are against them, but they're mostly just the kinds of things unions get upset about rather than actually having much real basis.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

The story reads as either very poorly edited or else boiled down from about five times the length. (or both.) It's not clear to me whether the RMT are objecting to the possible use of biometrics on the cards (fair enough) or the use of persnalized cards in clocking-on at all (in which case, what are they currently using?)

(And the best I could do off the top of my head was "Hey now, hey now now, make This Communion with me"...)