What's this useful optimism

[venta]

Driving down the motorway at the weekend, I had a sudden moment of panic as the accelerator pedal disappeared.

Common sense kicked in, and I told myself that pedals don't just disappear. Further checking revealed it was still there and, since I was still travelling at 70, presumably still working. It had, however, lost almost all its "spring", meaning that the slightest pressure from my foot sent it all the way to the floor. Wearing big boots, I could barely feel the pedal under my foot at all.

I drove very cautiously to my destination. I parked up and went to see the Violent Femmes (more on that later). Afterwards, following consultation with Andy, I fished out my nice big torch kept for such occasions in William's boot, and went to Have Words with my accelerator cable. The easily-visible end (at the carburettor) looked fine to my somewhat unpractised eyes - no fraying, no snagging, no invading parties of Saxons. I threw some WD40 at it for good measure - it didn't help. The other end of the cable disappears into a load of plastic moulding and Unchartered Territory.

Although William seemed quite drivable, I wasn't too sure how safe it was - if the theory that the accelerator cable was fraying was correct, then it might snap at any time. So, I called the AA.

It amuses me that the AA answer the phone by asking why I'm calling, and how they can help. Well, funnily enough, I'm calling the AA because my car's knackered and I'd like them to mend it. But no matter.

Not much more than an hour later, a chap in a breakdown lorry arrived. I explained what the problem was, and what I'd already checked. He repeated my checks on the carburettor-end of the cable, did some more poking around, and eventually informed me that the problem was that my engine needed tuning and the spark plugs needed replacing.

Now, I don't disagree. My engine does need tuning, and the plugs are frankly well past it. However, I disagree fairly violently that either of these would affect the springiness of the accelerator pedal.[*]

I pointed this out - if my engine needed tuning, wouldn't that be a gradual deterioration, rather than a sudden "snap" on the motorway ?

No, said the engineer, the engine was in a very bad state. There was absolutely no way I could drive "up the A40 at 60" with my engine like that. (Since I had just driven down the A40 at considerably more than 60, I assume he was saying no way I should rather than could). I might have accepted this, because I don't know that much about engines - though if mine were so badly out of tune it surprises me that the car passed the MOT emissions tests so comfortably only a month ago.

However, I persevered. Even if my engine were so badly out, how could it possibly affect a mechanical thing like the accelerator pedal ? Apparently, my engine was running so rough that "poor take-up" affected the pedal. Annoyingly, it didn't occur to me to point out that, if this were the case, then why the hell does the pedal still behave wrongly when the engine is switched off ?

Eventually, I gave in. There's only so far you can argue with an expert in their own field at 1:30am. I drove back to Oxford very cautiously.

So, my current theory is that the AA guy was just wrong. I don't know if I was right, but I think I have a more plausible explanation than he did.

This morning, I dropped William off at the Slade, asking them to have a look at the accelerator pedal (and to replace the plugs and tune the engine while they were on). I await their verdict with interest.

[*] For those who are saying "I don't know enough about cars to form an opinion": In my view, this is approximately equivalent to someone saying that the fact that the ball in your mouse is sticking can be solved by defragmenting your hard-drive. The defrag may well need doing, but simply isn't going to help the reported problem.

Comments

[zotz]

No, you're right. There'll be a return spring somewhere that's failed, at a guess.

[venta.livejournal.com]

I did wonder about that - if there were two springs responsible for returning the pedal, it would make sense that one of them had fallen off/broken since there's still a little bit of resistance on the pedal. There's one big obvious spring near the carburettor that seems fine, but beyond that I didn't really know what to look for.

[venta.livejournal.com]

You win. (http://www.livejournal.com/users/venta/125899.html)

[sushidog.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that sounds wrong to me; I'll be interested to hear what the garage has to say!

[venta.livejournal.com]

Me too :) I'm hoping I can persuade them to put in writing what was wrong with the car so I can write a really snitty letter to the AA.

Disappointinly, the guy I explained it all to in the garage this morning just said "er, right" rather than "well that's clearly complete bollocks".

[qatsi.livejournal.com]

just said "er, right"

Isn't that just bloke-speak for "well that's clearly complete bollocks but I can't let the side down"?

[wimble.livejournal.com]

why the hell does the pedal still behave wrongly when the engine is switched off?

If you've got power assisted braking, the brakes do behave differently when the engine is turned off (they get very, very heavy. This is quite scary if you try to control a rolling car which has power brakes, and the engine isn't running. The brakes, for normal effort, just don't work).

I don't know whether there exist any cars with a similar system on the accelerator, or, more accurately, the precise reverse! (I've never heard of one, but then I don't know enough to be definative). I'd be amazed if William had such a system :)

But in the mechanic's defense, such a system might, conceivably, exhibit the problems that William's showing. Of course, he's still an idiot, 'cos he ought to have noticed that H reg 309's won't have anything like that.


Good luck, and I hope the patient recovers.

[venta.livejournal.com]

And, if the mechanic had asked me, I could have told him that there is no such system, because the accelerator has never before behaved like that when the engine was off :)

William does have servo assisted brakes though - so yes, they do become very, very heavy when the engine's off. I discovered this a month or two ago - overheating slightly in a traffic jam on a hill, I'd switched off the engine and was rolling on the foot brakes. It was briefly alarming when I suddenly found it impossible to push the pedal down any more :)

[wimble.livejournal.com]

Didn't think it was plausible, just conceivable.

And yeah, you don't want to do that with the brakes. :)

[broadmeadow.livejournal.com]

I also discovered this on my Cavalier some years ago. Not only was the braking very hard, it was also aparrently ineffective - I had to resort to using the handbrake.

[wimble.livejournal.com]

My parents garage, before they moved, was on the downhill side of a road (which went across the face of the hill, although not it also decended a bit along the length of the road).

I got very used to having to cope with a very steep camber in the road, and the car refusing to stay where it was put, even ignoring the camber.

They had a Cavalier too. Stalling on this bit of road was not a good option.

[hjalfi.livejournal.com]

If you've got power assisted braking, the brakes do behave differently when the engine is turned off (they get very, very heavy. This is quite scary if you try to control a rolling car which has power brakes, and the engine isn't running. The brakes, for normal effort, just don't work).

Nearly all cars these days do have power brakes, and yeah, it's quite scary. The brakes are powered of a reservoir pressurised by the engine. When the engine stops, the reservoir remains pressurised, which means the power brakes still work --- until the third or fourth time you press the pedal, at which point the reservoir's exhausted, and the pedal suddenly stops moving. You're nowing operating the brake hydraulics by sheer muscle power alone and you really have to lean into them to make them do anything.

If you're being towed, it's worth while pumping the brakes a few times while stationary to make sure the reservoir's exhausted. Otherwise you get a really nast panic moment a short distance down the road, which might end up with you running into the back of the tow truck.

[nisaba.livejournal.com]

My mum's husband, who wot knows about engines, has a theory that NRMA (translated: AA) blokes are pretty much all a bunch of failed mechanics. What other kind of person with those sorts of skills ends up there rather than in a garage?

[venta.livejournal.com]

OK, I've no idea how these things work, and just presumed that the AA guys work in garages as well. I'd have expected that the pay is a lot better for being on call at antisocial hours and so on, so that might explain it.

Actually, it wasn't a genuine AA bloke who turned up. The AA must subcontract, because it was a guy from Brittania Rescue who actually came out. As far as I'm aware, Brittania don't have mechanics of their own, they just have deals with local garages, and when you break down they just get someone from the geographically closest garage to come out.

[bateleur.livejournal.com]

Britannia do just use garages.

And IME a good proportion of them know their stuff, too.

In this case, though, it sounds like you got a really dim one.

[venta.livejournal.com]

My only other brush with Brittania was when my parent's car went spang on Botley Road when they were visiting me - the mechanic Brittania sent then was marvellous. And from a family-run garage who turned out to be very efficient and incredibly friendly.

[nisaba.livejournal.com]

Ah ok. I assumed it was the smae set-up as the NRMA in NSW - bunches of dedicated people who do this sort of thing as a full-time job. Pay isn't that high, and in my experience all but one of the blokes who I ever had to call out were patently making shit up as they went along.

[cardinalsin.livejournal.com]

I could barely feel the pedal under my foot at all.

That sounds really scary - like the sort of stuff that only happens in bad dreams! I've had dreams about driving and not being able to open my eyes, which probably approximates to the same experience. Then again, I've dreamed about driving while fully aware that I don't know how to drive.

[stegzy.livejournal.com]

Your AA chappy sounds like he, like me, is a graduate of the Halfords school of Motor Mechanics. (If its broke its probably the paintwork/Haynes Manual/lack of furry dice)

[venta.livejournal.com]

Oh no - no wonder my car doesn't go! The paint work is quite knackered, the Haynes Manual is covered in oil, and I have no furry dice whatsoever. I'm doomed!

[leathellin.livejournal.com]

and I have no furry dice whatsoever

Well that's something to get you for Christmas then... :-)

[wimble.livejournal.com]

You might be right about the paint and lack of dice, but having an Oil-covered Haynes manual is so much better than having a clean one.

At least, when it comes to trying to convince anybody that you know what you're talking about (which is not corrolated with whether you actually do). And that ought to include William.

If you don't fix your accelerator, I'll, I'll... Change your distributor cap! Don't think I can't! I've got an oily Haynes manual here!
That ought to convince him :)

[venta.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, William and I have been tackling these problem long enough that he knows exactly what I'm capable of :) He also knows that the reason the manual is oily is because his boot is full of oil, thanks to a leaking oil bottle a few months ago. Despite attempts to clean up, everything remains oily.

Even the A-Z of Berkshire. So that might be more of a threat. "If you don't fix your accelerator, I'll, I'll... drive you to Slough."

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

There are some threats that should never be used.

[triskellian]

And if you wanted, you could tell him a cautionary tale about the time I drove my last car to Slough, and the motorway junction took a dislike to it, and did something to make a bit (the carburettor?) fall off the engine, and we had to sit in the middle of the slip road for some time until a police jeep came and towed us into a layby, and we then waited even longer until the AA finally deigned to turn up and fix us. Slough doesn't like old cars.

[davefish.livejournal.com]

an expert in their own field
At the side of his roadside surely.

[erming.livejournal.com]

long shot I know, but your a car person and seem to know other car people.

Basically we're having our access removed in 2 weeks time, so have 2 weeks to sell a car. It's a red Mk1 vauxhall astra that has had one careful owner. It is 23 years old and has a genuine mileage of about 43k miles. It comes complete with a modern kenwood radio casette and a lar pair of rear alpine speakers that sound very good.

We're trying to find it a good home quickly, so if your interested or know anyone that may be interested in a car in good condition thats going cheap.