I open my curtains at 7am

[venta]

This morning so far I have: had a shower, washed my hair, posted some stuff, voted, discovered a shop I wanted to go to was closed, and been in work (which is an hour's drive from my house) for nearly twenty minutes already. Blimey.

Having found my polling station - it's a tricky little blighter, and hides, and elections are sufficiently far apart to allow me to forget how to corner it - I got my set of forms.

Which always worries me. I mean, I went in, and handed them a polling card. When asked, I gave my name, confirming that I can read as well as steal polling cards. As it happens, it was my own card I handed over - but shouldn't I be asked to identify myself in some way ?

However. I filled in the little box on the local election form. I read the exciting list of parties available in the European elections - some of which I'd not even heard of. Then neatly, decisively and very blackly, I exercised my democratic right and put the cross in entirely the wrong box.

Feeling extremely stupid, I asked the bloke if there was any provision made for very stupid people who ticked the wrong box. "Oh no", he groaned, with the panic'd expression of one who did not have this eventuality covered in the briefing, and has no idea what to do. I asked if I could borrow the eraser sitting on his desk. He handed it over with the relief of someone who's found a way to make a problem go away, rather than solved it.

I rubbed out the cross, and made a new one (in the right box). It's obvious who I intended to vote for. Sadly, anyone who looked carefully could see the rubbed-out-cross too, so I don't actually know whether I rendered my ballot paper invalid. The bloke on the desk said it would be "ok, so long as it's obvious what you meant", but I'm really not sure I believe him :(


Actually, I didn't open my curtains, but we'll let that pass.

Comments

[wimble.livejournal.com]

been in work...for nearly twenty minutes already.

You're weird, you are.

[nalsa.livejournal.com]

We're trialling out postal voting up here. Secret ballot, my posterior. The whole thing is covered in uniquely identifiable barcodes, making it very, very easy to find out who voted what.

On the plus side, I didn't have to walk to a polling station smack bang in the middle of a remarkably scary sink estate.

[zotz]

The normal ballot is traceable too. It used to be used to find out who voted communist.

[zotz]

The returning officer has to show any papers considered spoilt to the candidates and their election agents, who will obviously argue that each one is a vote for them if it's even vaguely plausible.

[nalsa.livejournal.com]

True, but now it's automated :-)

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

My experience (from only one count,a dmittedly) is that the candidates all usually agree fairly easily. So, in exactly that case, it'll be shown to them, and they'll all say 'yes, but it's a fair cop, they clearly meant to vote for [name]' rather than squabble over it.

[venta.livejournal.com]

According to a colleague, what the ballot-paper-issuing person should have done was filled in a bunch of forms and given me a new ballot paper. Shame he didn't know this :(

(And, apprently, clear instructions to this effect are written on the back of a polling card, so it's also a shame I hadn't read mine.)

[bateleur.livejournal.com]

The ballot papers in Feltham are quite obviously going to be read by computer. Did yours have "DO NOT FOLD !" written on it in big, black letters ? If so then whether or not you've invalidated it just depends on the threshold set on the optical recognizey wossname.

Incidentally, I was required to put one paper into one box and the other two into the other box, each of them a specific way up. I reckon between that and ineptitude with the crayons they'll probably receive at least 10% invalid ballots !

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

they'll probably receive at least 10% invalid ballots

Which will be counted by hand.

[venta.livejournal.com]

I didn't see any anti-folding instructions...

Mind you, if I hadn't folded it, it wouldn't have gone in the teeny tiny slot, so I'm guessing that's a "no". My vote will be hand-read :)

[pm215]

"DO NOT FOLD !"

...but it's OK to spindle or mutilate?

[venta.livejournal.com]

It's always OK to mutilate.

:)

[triskellian]

Mine were enthusiastically folded by the ballot-givey-outy guy, so I'm guesing it's OK to fold Oxford ballot papers.

[wimble.livejournal.com]

You are leathellin, and I claim my right to run away quickly before you retaliate!

[venta.livejournal.com]

You are leathellin

<looks at icon>
<looks at username>
<looks briefly in mirror and at photo driving-licence<

Nope.

[addedentry.livejournal.com]

What do I do if a voter makes a mistake and spoils the ballot paper?

You can see examples of disputed ballot papers at the end of this guidance for returning officers [PDF].

[venta.livejournal.com]

Bah :(

I'd go and make a fuss and grumble that I hadn't been given a new ballot paper if I didn't feel so damn silly for crossing the wrong box in the first place.

Thanks for those, though - if it's allowable to scribble out your first cross and put a second, then I figure it's probably OK to erase your first cross and put a second in.

I hadn't realised your vote was invalid if you wrote something which identified you on the paper. That surprises me.

[addedentry.livejournal.com]

I suppose it's one simple check against bribery/intimidation: if you're asked to prove that you voted as requested, you can say 'identifying my paper would have invalided it'.

With postal votes, as news stories are suggesting, other people can ask to see your ballot paper before you send it off )-:

[davefish.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but we know how good you are at disguises.

[venta.livejournal.com]

...they're terribly comfortable. I think everyone will be wearing them in the future.

[davefish.livejournal.com]

Inconceivable

[leathellin.livejournal.com]

The first hit if you type that into Google is ..http://www.geocities.com/bithevn/PBride/

You keep using that word.
I do not think it means what you think it means...

[wimble.livejournal.com]

He means "inconcealable"

[jiggery-pokery.livejournal.com]

That's very interesting indeed. I am surprised that the cross at the bottom left of page 105 (numbered "page 103") is accepted when the cross is the cross at the bottom left of page 107 (numbered "page 105") is not - we're getting into highly discretionary territory there.

Ditto, the paper at the top-left of page 106 (numbered "page 104") seems pretty clear to me. Why is 1-2-3 different from tick-cross-cross?

Was amused by

7.15.3 The expression "legal tender" is not
synonymous with "cash". The
denominations of money that may be
used as legal tender depend upon the
amount to be paid. Since the deposit is
£5,000, only official bank notes may be
used to make it. This would prevent, for
example, a candidate making the
deposit in 10 pence pieces as a form
of protest against the deposit or as a
publicity stunt (as has been tried on at
least one occasion).

Surely, as per the ox.faq of legend, paying entirely in £1 and £2 coins, would be legal tender?

[neilh.livejournal.com]

It is extremely unlikely they would actually be *read* or counted by computer, they may have an electronic system to perform an initial sort which will later be checked by hand in case of dispute. Using computers in any part of the process is fraught with all kinds of dangers and Britain is far to conservative to do that kind of thing.

[venta.livejournal.com]

Surely, as per the ox.faq of legend, paying entirely in £1 and £2 coins, would be legal tender?

I don't know the legend, so don't know the amount to be paid.

But I think that the rule is something along the lines of (if we number the denominations) coins of denomination X can only be used to pay amounts up to denomination X+2.

So, you can only pay up to 50p in ten-pence pieces, £1 in 20-pence-pieces, etc. I may be wrong about the value of 2, and I don't believe it's really enforced very often, but I think the law is something like that.

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

http://www.tclayton.demon.co.uk/dec.html is unofficial but claims to give the legal tender limits for coins.

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/legaltender.htm is more official but rather incomplete.

[venta.livejournal.com]

For people who don't want to wade through the first of those links, it says (unofficially):

20p and 50p coins are legal tender up to a total value of 10 pounds.
5p and 10p coins are legal tender up to a total value of 5 pounds.
1p and 2p coins are legal tender up to a total of 20 pence.

So actually 2 = 3 or 4.

And the official site says:

"The current series of Bank of England notes are legal tender in England and Wales, although not in Scotland or Northern Ireland, where the only currency carrying legal tender status for unlimited amounts is the one pound and two pound coins. "

So (unless you're in a silly Celtic region), anything from a one pound coin up is legal in unlimited amounts.

So whatever the ox.faq of legend is, it is at least plausible.

[addedentry.livejournal.com]

Chris' reference to the ox.FAQ is this FAQ answer.

So actually 2 = 3 or 4.

Are you an engineer?!

[venta.livejournal.com]

Are you an engineer?!

I used to be a mathematician, but I think I dried dirty :)

[venta.livejournal.com]

Chris' reference to the ox.FAQ is this FAQ answer.

Oh :(

I had mistakenly inferred an exciting and daredevil anecdote involving an ox.individual trying to pay an electoral deposit in one pound coins, or something.