The bands play it hard and fast go ripping through their sets

[venta]

(It's just dawned on me that I rarely click on cuts when it's not obvious what's behind them. So why should you ? So, behind the below is a request for your thoughts on moshing.)

I've been vaguely pondering for a while about the dynamics of a mosh pit. On the dancefloor is a bunch of people piling around, looking pretty much indistinguishable from a fight, but as soon as someone falls over, people stop to pick them up. Two people might be thumping each other one minute, then singing along arms-round-shoulders then next. What's going on there, then ?

And yes, I do it too. I will happily hurl myself onto the dancefloor for Holiday in Cambodia, despite the fact that a bunch of bruises or someone's elbow in your nose is a fairly likely outcome. Why is this fun ? How many people take the entirely sensible view that no, that hurts, and they're staying a long way away from it ?

However, the reason for suddenly writing about this is that the mother (who's a columnist) (of the journalistic rather than fifth kind) is pondering writing about such things. So, as her part-time research worker, I have been requested to gather opinions.

So, what do you understand by the word "moshing"? My Dad tells me that all the cool kids in Darlington refer to the habit of barging into one another as, er, "barging". And I've known a lot of people use "mosh" to describe the keep-your-feet-still flick-hair-forwards-and-backwards I'm-listening-to-Metallica dance. (So have I just got it completely wrong ?) Would you use the word "mosh" ? What would you mean by it ? What other words might you use to describe dancing styles ?

Does anyone have any idea where the word "mosh" comes from ? And why the word pit ?

"For God's sake, someone teach the Oxgoths to pit!"

- Hatchet, c. 1999

Comments

[triskellian]

I'd use "moshing" for the hair-swinging-feet-still kinda dance, rather than for being in a mosh pit, but I'd still use "mosh pit" even though I wouldn't (necessarily) mosh in one.

Incidentally, I've also heard it called "koshing" (sp?), in Bedfordshire, but I don't think it was ever as common as "moshing", and I'm not sure if it extended to "kosh pit".

[verlaine.livejournal.com]

For the purposes of (relatively) bruiseless moshing, I recommend being of a height where your elbows are in other people's faces, not the other way round. Try it!

[bateleur.livejournal.com]

I think 'moshing' is the correct word for the whole jumping up and down and bashing into each other thing. (In particular, I wouldn't use it in the sense triskellian advocates.)

Not really my thing, personally, but I can see the appeal. After all, insanely loud rock music is already supposed to be as immersive and stimulating as possible - a bit of jumping around flailing your limbs seems very much in the spirit of it all. And if the physical contact means a few bruises, it's probably worth it for the sense of shared/group experience of the whole thing.

As for 'pit' - I always assumed it was in the same way that you have "orchestra pits". That is: the bit where the moshers are is physically lower than the area with the seating in. (Except when it isn't, but YSWIM.)

[kauket.livejournal.com]

Jumping up and down. The moving-of-the-head-only, would imply headbanging, whereas moshing to me is jumping up and down and to an extent the barging into others. Although moshing often also involves hair going everywhere. All My Life by the Foo's is a good one to mosh to.

[zotz]

The original term, as far as I can tell, is slamdancing, which seems to have been the common term in the US hardcore scene long before it became common over here. I first heard moshing used for the I'm-sort-of-headbanging-and-sort-of-skipping-in-circles Metallica-dance, but it changed meaning quite soon - inside a year or two.

Hooray for the OED

[triskellian]

Mosh, v

[App. a variant of MASH v.1]

intr. To dance frenetically or violently to (originally punk or hardcore) rock music, esp. so as to collide deliberately with other dancers. Also occas. trans.

1983 Village Voice (N.Y.) 18 Jan. 30/1 Slam dancers..agree that it is ‘violence within friendship’... Besides, ‘you're so into the music and dancing that you don't think about getting moshed.’ 1985 ‘STORMTROOPERS OF DEATH’ Milano Mosh (song) in Speak English or Die (record sleeve notes), We mosh, until we die, We mosh, until you try. You think that you can try, But can you do the Milano Mosh. 1987 Washington Post (Nexis) 4 June, Normally we have a pit. In the pit, you mosh. 1993 Chicago Tribune 13 Apr. I. 14/3 It wasn't even clear if the crowd noticed the band was changing songsthey pretty much moshed obliviously through the slow ones and the fast ones, and even between songs. 1995 Face Sept. 159/1 But, hey, make like a wild thing! Mosh your mother! 2001 Observer 18 Mar. (Britain Uncovered Suppl.) 18/2 He's still there at the foot of the stage, moshing with Matthew.

mosher n. moshing n. and a.

1990 Rolling Stone 22 Mar. 26/2 Like a recent gig that erupted into a near riot when overeager *moshers careened out of the slam pit, felling bystanders. 2000 Time Out 26 Jan. 60/1 DJs Lydia & Rex spin raunchy rock trash and screaming indie, punk & Goth guitar grooves for dressed-up rockers and mad moshers on the huge main floor. 1987 Music Making July 6 Laboratory tests on *moshin' Russkies showed ‘a worsening of memory, loss of attention, a fall in reading speeds, and an increase in aggressiveness and stubbornness’. 1991 Twenty Twenty Spring 73/3 All funk-metal groups agree that one form of self-abuse is still legitimate: moshing, stage-diving and other forms of lemming-like behaviour are de rigeur [sic]. 1996 Cape Times 14 May (Health & Beauty section) 1/4 Victims of moshing are increasingly seeking damages for injuries.

Mosh, n

I. Simple uses.

1. A dance involving ‘moshing’ (see MOSH v.). Also: aggressive rock music (originally punk or hardcore) associated with moshing.

1985 ‘STORMTROOPERS OF DEATH’ in Speak English or Die (record album) (title of song) Milano mosh. 1987 ‘ANTHRAX’ (title of song) Caught in a mosh. 1987 Village Voice (N.Y.) 14 July 27 By the guitar solos they are literally bouncing off the walls... It's a mosh. 1995 E. WEISBARD Spin Alternative Record Guide 332 Suicidal Tendencies' lurching mosh ‘Institutionalized’, the greatest..underground smash in hardcore history. 1995 Time Out 6-13 Dec. 131/4 (advt.) Andy Cairns' Belfast trio hardened their sound even more for this year's ‘Infernal Love’ album, a move that delighted both their metal contingent and their indie fans who like a mosh. 1999 Melody Maker 8 May 42/3 The..non-terrifying nature of their recent output. Less mosh, more mush.


II. Compounds.

2. General attrib., as mosh area, music, etc.

1990 Los Angeles Times 21 Aug. (Electronic ed.), The mosh ring and slam pits have become de rigeur and pro forma at so many post-punk and new-metal concerts. 1991 Washington City Paper 6 Sept. 38/4 Take, for example, seminal thrashers Exodus, whose mosh anthem ‘Toxic Waltz’ goes something like this. 1994 Sunday Times (S. Afr.) 28 Aug. (Metro section) 1/1 After midnight, when people are not sober, we play mosh music and people go wild. Everyone slams and bumps into each other. It is madness. 1999 Star-Ledger (Newark, New Jersey) 18 Nov. 31/5 The floor was divided into two colossal mosh areas.


3. mosh pit, the area in front of the stage where moshing usually takes place. Also fig.

1988 Orange County Reg. (Santa Ana, Calif.) 18 July (Electronic ed.), The Ramones provided the thrashing while those in the mosh pit down front..waged mock war. 1990 Sounds 10 Nov. 51/3 The security..helped the more diminutive among the crowd on to the stage if they had problems getting free of the moshpit. 2001 N.Y. Times Mag. 25 Nov. 62/2 Most of the media commentariat..viewed him as the adult in a mosh pit of moralists and America-firsters.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_corpse_/]

Appropriate that you be listening to NMA while posting that, since some of the most violent / civilised mosh pits I've ever seen were at NMA gigs.

Clogs you know, hurt when they land on your feet.

As for why... it's partly un-limited dancing, cutting loose completely, losing yourself in the music and the moment, knowing that those around you are doing the same and all are prepared for the occasional flailing limb. And the arms round shoulders that follows is because while there might be violent dancing in the pit, it's rarely violence directed toward anyone, but simply to flow with the often violent and outraged lyrics.

The most dangerous mosher I ever knew was a big NMA fan (but only a little fella) who used to follow them on tour, sleeping in ditches if need be. He once tried to pierce his own bellybutton with a hammer, a nail and a kitchen table.

[(Anonymous)]

Enormous thanks to everyone. Venta: buy Triskellian TWO pints and I'll sub you next weekend.
When I was dancing to what, for want of a better word, we have to call pop (to Bill Haley records et al) the best dancer in town threw you in a somersault over his shoulders - and you think moshing can hurt????
Venta's Mum.

Mosh-mosh

[chron-job.livejournal.com]

I first heard the term "Slam Dancing" used here in Gainesville Florida a bit after I first came up to the University. Probably in 1989.

Until that time I'd lived a horribly sheltered life, so the term may very well have been in wide use, but outside of my peer group.

At some point in the mid '90s I heard people use the term "Moshing" and "Mosh pit" more often than "Slam Dancing".

Being 1) new to the club scene and 2) 130 kilos; my "role" in the local mosh culture was essentially that of a retaining wall. If an over-exuberant mosher tried to bounce out of the field, I tossed 'em back into play.

Later on I began experimenting with mosh dynamics. Specifically, pushing closer and closer into the swirling pit, but staying still and stable. Once there I would track the size and movement of the lagrange points I had created, populated by small, frightened, or resting bodies.

the saddest thing I ever saw was at the October, 1996 Gainesville Music Harvest, watching a pack of addicted slammers attempting to mosh to "They Might Be Giants"

Mosh + "Birdhouse in your soul" :== SURREAL!!!!!

[dmh.livejournal.com]

I'd say "slam dancing" is certainly closer to what I do, when the moment seems appropriate; I've never been one to mosh. According to Dictionary.com, it's a "style of dancing, usually performed to punk rock, in which participants intentionally collide with one another."

As to why we pick our up neighbours up off the ground, or show comaraderie with total strangers... well, that is because... WE ARE UNITED BY ROCK!!!!!1!!one!!eleven!!!!

[neilh.livejournal.com]

Much as it pains me to say it, I must agree with Hatchet.

Anthrax must have had something to do with making 'moshing' popular, with their 'caught in a mosh'...

Theres a whole bunch of other dances too, one of my favorites to watch is the windmill, but that has kinda died out now that all the rockers got their hair cut.