venta | Time, Manner, Place

Time, Manner, Place

Every so often, I use a word which makes everyone go "eh?". Often this is because I'm using regional words in the wrong region (and, in fairness, sometimes it's because I'm just indulging my taste for obscure words). But recently, I apologised for saying "playing hooky" (playing truant), and was told that this was in fact (a) well-known and (b) American. So I'm wondering... how many of the words I often avoid really are obscure northenisms. Are they in fact well known? Are they not actually northern, but instead, perhaps, words that were common when I was little/are common among kids but not grown ups, or something completely different?

So, what I want to know is, for the following words, would you know what I meant if I used them? Would you be able to work it out ? Would you use them yourself ? Do you know whence they come ? I'm not particularly interested in whether they're in dictionaries/googlable etc, what I'm after is a measure of well-known-ness. Please comment, even if only to say "I have no idea what you're talking about, you freak!"

And as a side-issue - I'd always thought "minging" or "minger" were definitely on the list of northern words, but they seem to have become pretty widespread relatively recently. Any suggestions?

scunner (noun) - to take a scunner at someone

ket(s) (noun) - I'm off to buy ket(s)

chimble (verb) - that wall is chimbling

molly (adj) - she's wearing a really molly top

stotting (adj) - I'm stotting

gegs (noun) - where did I put my gegs?

mizzle (noun/verb) - the weather? Oh, it's just mizzling

ginnel (noun) - take the first left down the ginnel

Probably more as I think of them.

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I know "scunner" only as a noun from various classic 2000AD stories written by Scotsmen, and on the available evidence fairly synonymous with "bastard" but with the advantage of not contravening the Comics Code.

I would have thought "stott" was a verb meaning to bounce or kick around or something - don't Scottish children stott their balls?

"Ginnel" (and "snicket") I know from association with Yorkshire lass Gemma, but wouldn't have otherwise.

The rest of your words, I'm afraid to say, are nonsense ;)

I would have thought "stott" was a verb meaning to bounce or kick around or something - don't Scottish children stott their balls?

There's also 'stottie' meaning a bread roll/bap - so stotting could be related to that (eg 'eating' or similar)?

I've always thought that

venta was top stottie, myself.

Mmmm.... stottie cakes...

When I am dictator, all bakeries south of, I dunno, about Sheffield or something will be served with a writ demanding that they henceforth stock stotties, cornedbeef pasties, and japs.

Anyone finding these items for sale in the vicinity of Oxford should inform me post haste (which actually, these days, is pretty bloody slow).

I only became familiar with 'stotties' when I lived in Newcastle. True to my southern roots, I find them realy quite unpleasant, so am pleased to learn that they have not yet penetrated as far south as Oxford. Honestly, the thing about the north is you lot just don't know how to make decent avocado dip </Mandelson>

Oh, and 'ginnel' is one I've known for a long time, but it definately not a southern word - can't remember where I first heard it, probably when I was in Lanacaster.

Hmm... I have no idea what they might stot in Scotland, but I know in addition to the meaning I had up there, rain can also be "stotting down" (as in "It's stotting down out there") if it's raining really heavily. So there may be some truth in what you say.

You know very well that 'Gegs (9,4)' is a canonical crossword clue.

[Google is your friend. Or should that be Geggle?]

mizzle (noun/verb) - the weather? Oh, it's just mizzling
ginnel (noun) - take the first left down the ginnel

***

There last two I don't know but would guess by context/sound of word: mizzle = middling/drizzling?

ginnel = alleyway/path down the back of houses etc? Local words used for this in Richmond seemed to be 'wynd' (pronounced as wind, both ways - as in to wind wool, the wind both blow), for actual named little backstreets (Ryder's Wynd, Greyfriar's Wynd...); and 'snickit', for the shortcut footpaths through housing estates etc.

The rest I'm fairly stumped on...

Damn, and you were one of my better bets for knowing them. Obviously the poshness of Yorkshire has prevented Darlington's nasty slang from leaking over the river.

I think my last best hope is now going to be

jiggery_pokery :)

In that case you're screwed. :-)

scunner screams mild Scottish vituperation from Supergran at me.

gegs - I'm familiar with this, may be local.

mizzle - my best guess is that this is a portmanteau word invented by Bob Johnson, who (as you know) is the local mad Tyne Tees weather host.

The rest: er... :-/

Nope, those two were the only two I knew, and I'm a Yorkshire lass. though I'm familiar with snicket as well as ginnel.

I think I could make a stab at 'mizzling'. The rest are not at all familiar, but I regret I'm a Southern lass born and bred...

Many a mizzle makes a muzzle; ergo a mizzle is a leather thong just long enough to be tied around a dog's snout.

Splendid :)

I knew we kept you around for something.

Interesting ... the version I know is "many a mickle macks a muckle", though I've no idea what that actually means ... usually used in a "look after the pennies and the pounds will take care of themselves" context. As for mizzle, I thought that was mist + drizzle. Not to be confused with fret or haar, of course. But throw a stottie cake and it stots just like the rain, so I think you have something there.

the version I know is "many a mickle macks a muckle",

Yup,

verlaine's version being a pune, or play on words...

Mickle and muckle are Scots dialect words meaning "a little bit" and "a lot" respectively. So the saying does roughly equate to the pennies/pounds idea.

I'm down with fret, but you've lost me on haar. Sounds Dutch ?

I believe it's an upmarket version of the Fog on the Tyne.

One weird one I was told at school, was that in the North-East "canny" means friendly, welcoming, etc., but that in the North-West it means sharp and untrustworthy.

Upmarket fog ? I like it.

You're right about canny. And when my cousins moved from the northeast to Torquay, they were surprised to discover that people were offended to be called canny there. Apparently they were understanding it to mean fat. Whether this is peculiar to Torquay or common to all of Devon I have no idea.

I (a Southerner) had 'canny' down as value-neutral and meaning something like astute, just to confuse matters further.

I think that's allowable as well - I think

qatsi's school was a bit harsh in their definition. Or else it is just further variation. I'd have gone for the sharp without the mistrustworthy aspects - you can, for example, be canny with money or similar, which is closer to what you're saying.

On a side-note, the phrase "Gan Canny" was used a lot in a some sort of safety campaign when I was little (can't remember what exactly). It translates more or less as "go carefully" :)

Not the school, just the teacher. A poor Lancashire woman who clearly did not feel quite at home, or had perhaps been accused of being canny by the locals in their welcoming way (see

uitlander for character references regarding the friendliness of Geordies).

You're probably right that the definition was a bit harsh; ironically an example of a character that is consistent with both Northern definitions of canny is Del Boy from Only Fools and Horses (though not - originally at any rate - the Devon one).

Mizzle I've heard of (and maybe ginnel - not 100% sure). The rest - no idea.

If you like, I can ask my firm's Token Northerner if she's heard of any of these words (also of the female persuasion, also from Darlington, also called Elizabeth... hang on...)

She can't be me, I'm on Rockall, remember ?

Please do ask her. It's looking like I need all the help I can get, here.

Stottie has a rather more contemporary meaning at Tao.

:)

I have no idea what you're talking about, you freak!

As an East Midlander moving north, I had to learn that "away" meant "come this way with me".
You won't find stotties much further south than the Tees.
They may be winds in Richmond; In Darlngton, it's Post House Wynd with the y as in "sigh" (or in Blow, blow thou winter wind, where it has to rhyme with "kind"). In Yarm (North Riding)it's pronounced Bentley Weend.
O Douglas, Scots author, John Buchan's sister,wrote of a fattish woman "Mrs Jackson stotted forward on her high heels." A "stot" is a (?) Scots word for a steer/bullock.

"stotting" brings to my mind only faint recollections of a behaviour demonstrated by gazelles(?) -- leaping up and down when they notice a predator. This I probably read about in a Richard Dawkins book (at a guess, The Selfish Gene) as an example of apparently altruistic behaviour which is then shown to be in the selfish interests of some genetic material. I'm guessing that this isn't the meaning you had in mind...

Of the rest, I'd only be able to make wild guesses based on context, and certainly wouldn't use any of them. (A life spent in Hertfordshire, Oxford, and London does little to educate me in the dialects of the north.)

Oh dear, you made me think of the traditional mating displays of the Geordies in the Bigg Market on a Saturday night.

The female of the species shows off her fine white leather mini-skirt and skimpy top, demonstrating incredible agility by balancing on her 6 inch stilettos and a total inability to feel cold. Meanwhile the males of the species attempt to impress the females with competitve games such as 'who can pee highest up the wall' and 'projectile vomit'.

Oh how I miss Newcastle (not).

Nobody has any excuse for not knowing 'ginnel' since you've explained it in your LJ before.

Clearly none of those words means anything, and you just made them up :)

Minging, that most vile of words, seemed to me to leap into popularity after it became the word of choice for the Big Brother 1 house.

OK, let's try some very, very southern words:
Weirsh - This apple's a bit weirsh. (I don't even know how you spell that, I've only ever heard it)
Whisht - Whisht liddle thing, idn't she?
Furze (-bush)
Mazy - She's mazy.
And I'm sure you can manage oggie.

Weirsh I can guess from context, but don't know. Sour/sharp ?
Whisht is a Geordie word meaning "shut up", but I guess that wasn't what you were after.
Furze I'm fine with.
Mazy - would that be the same as mazed ? ie mad ? not to be confused with "she's a mazer", which is a compliment.

Mmmm.... oggies...

Whisht is kind of pale, sickly - 'Whisht liddle thing, idn't she?' is what my great grandfather said when presented with my newborn mother. Charming.

Mazy is confused, bewildered. Presumably from the same root as amazed.

Well, I'm from Stoke-on-Trent, and my parents were from there and Cannock (so, Midlands rather than the North). Aside from the whole bread products thing (which I suspect is the most common variation in UK language) some words that spring to mind are

cut - canal
snappin' - a packed lunch
nesh - feels the cold

Yup, I'd say nesh. And even mean the same thing :)

Cut is more general to me than canal - the road which takes a funny dive to go under the railway line is "The Cut" near my parents' house.

A packed lunch is bait, in my world. Anyone got any more ?

In your case is 'cut' a shortcut for, er, 'shortcut'?

I can't think off-hand of any others at the moment, though no doubt there are loads.

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Time, Manner, Place

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haar

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Stottie

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Are there gazelles in the North?

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