Till I step on the brakes to get out of her clutches

[venta]

The more I read recipes online, the more I become convinced that Americans have a different word for almost everything. Lots of my cookery books have "translations" in them, and I'm down with the eggplant, the zucchini, the capsicum, the scallions... For years I thought I was pretty much sorted, yet still things keep catching me out. After loads of mentions on Just Bento, I finally got round to trying to work out whether I could buy arugula in the UK. Oh. It's rocket.

Today, I was reading a recipe for bolognese sauce. "In a Dutch oven," it began "over medium heat, heat the oil. Add the onion and cook for 2 minutes." In a what now?

Back in the days when I did a lot of Scouting (and learned a lot of verses of You'll Never Get To Heaven) we used to build what we called Dutch ovens from oil drums when camping. Find a steep hillside, dig a hole into it so you can lay your oil drum flat, scoop out small depression in bottom of hole, add oil drum, cover over again with earth. There are details, like leaving a gap at the back to make a chimney out of tin cans, but the basic principle is: light fire under drum, drum gets hot, hey presto, oven.

You can make a mean pizza in a Dutch oven.

Except... the internet suggests that this is not what a Dutch oven is at all. In fact, the internet doesn't seem to have much to say (on a very quick google) on re-purposing oil drums as camping ovens. I guess whoever taught us to make them called them Dutch ovens and we followed suit. Anyway, they're pretty much unsuitable for heating oil and browning onions in.

From Wikipedia it seems an American person talking about a Dutch oven basically means a flame-proof casserole dish.

I've learned something already today.

Comments

[ailbhe]

What do you call scallions? I grew up with Irish salad - iceberg lettuce, pale tomato, watery cucumber, and scallions.

[venta.livejournal.com]

I'd call them spring onions. I think English salad is very like Irish salad, but I was lucky enough to have a mother with a vitriolic hatred of such things so we got to have more interesting salads instead.

[ailbhe]

Ahh. My mother liked beetroot, and celery and apple, and loathed iceberg lettuce with a passion, but a cultural norm is a cultural norm.

[valkyriekaren.livejournal.com]

Some friends of my parents used to call them 'scally onions'.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Makes me wonder what Americans cook casseroles in. If they eat casseroles, that is: maybe they call them something different too.

(Actually, saying that, I'm not sure I've ever cooked an official 'casserole' in any of my casserole dishes. Lots of bakes, stews, hotpots etc, but 'casserole' seems to imply traditional French cooking, which I don't really do.)

[venta.livejournal.com]

We definitely cook casseroles. Now that I come to think about it, though, all the things I'd call "casserole" are - while not exactly traditional French - very much meat-orientated. Any vegetabley thing would probably be branded as a hotpot or a stew or something.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Mm, that sounds pretty plausible.

[exspelunca.livejournal.com]

Canadian casserole is veggie (possibly had another name but my mother got the original recipe from a Canadian magazine during food rationing so that what we called it)

[venta.livejournal.com]

It gets worse... so, Wikipedia has the following to say on the subject of casseroles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casserole):

"In British English, this type of dish is frequently also called a bake"

The illustrative picture is of 'Finnish macaroni cheese casserole', which is definitely a bake in my book. And not a casserole.

"Types of casserole include ragout, hotpot, cassoulet, tajine, moussaka, lasagne, shepherd's pie, gratin, rice or macaroni timballo, and carbonnade"

Most of those I wouldn't call casserole, either. Carbonnade, I'm ok with. But shepherd's pie, lasagne, moussaka? Rubbish. I reckon if it ain't at least a little bit runny, it ain't a casserole.

[ailbhe]

I think if I don't cook it with the lid on, it's not a casserole.

[venta.livejournal.com]

Wikipedia, he say:

"Casseroles are usually cooked slowly in the oven, often uncovered"

But I agree with you.

[lnr]

For me I tend to think stew-on-the-hob = stew, and stew-in-the-oven = casserole. Normally I tend to do them with the lid on until pretty much cooked, then take the lid off for the last bit of cooking to let it thicken a bit (or a lot if I forget).

And I wouldn't call a tagine or moussaka or similar a casserole (though a hotpot or cassoulet might just count).

Tonight's tea is a beef stew/casserole anyway - I started it on the hob last night to give it a head start, and Mike will shove it in the oven to finish off when he gets in after work.

[venta.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think we all seem fairly broadly agreed here - maybe we should add a British sub-section to the Wikipedia page :) Sadly, I'm guessing LJ doesn't count as a valid thing for a citation :)

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

augh! that's hopeless.

I don't think a casserole has a topping, or layers. I suppose in my mind it is basically a stew that you do in the oven instead of on the hob.

[venta.livejournal.com]

Yes, I thought toppings were right out. Hotpots, now, they're allowed (and indeed encouraged) to have toppings. As are bakes...

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

In our family stews were made on the stove, but if we put the same thing in the oven, it was a casserole.

Casseroles in the US seem to be different - eg green bean casserole, which is basically green beans and tinned soup, in the oven, or this, which I would call a pasta bake.

[venta.livejournal.com]

OK... right... so quoting from that recipe, we have...

Grease a 9x13" casserole dish and set aside.

Boil a pot of salted water and cook pasta until al dente. Drain and set aside

Meanwhile, in a medium pan over medium heat, cook bacon pieces until crispy. [snip].

Set your oven to broil. Combine the pasta, beef and bacon in a large bowl (the bowl you cooked the pasta in, if it's big enough). Add the tomato soup and 1 cup of cheese. Stir to combine. Add hot sauce, salt and pepper to taste. Pour into the prepared pan and top with the rest of the cheese.

So... we have a casserole dish (called a "casserole dish") greased. We boil a pot of water to cook pasta - I'm guessing a pot is what I'd call a saucepan/pan.

We cook bacon in a pan - presumably a frying pan (or a saucepan in a pinch). We're stirring things in bowl - which we might have cooked the pasta in. Wait, we cooked the pasta in a pot, which was a pan, now it's a bowl?

Then we pour the mixture into the prepared pan, by which I think we mean the casserole dish, not the pan, the pot or the bowl...

Whew :)

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

(Do all US savoury recipes involve adding a tin of soup? Not a cooking ingredient I ever really consider. Sounds like the result of generations of clever marketing by Campbells…)

[venta.livejournal.com]

They do seem to, don't they :)

A while back I was looking for a vegan recipe for something-or-other online (I forget both what, and why) and all the recipes I turned up were American, and all seemed to involve adding a packet of "low-sodium chicken-style broth" at some point.

I imagine I gave up and made a pie instead.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

The very name of "chicken-style broth" is somehow rather unappealing.

What's wrong with vegetable-style broth (or indeed actual vegetable broth/stock/bouillon cube), if one's making a veggie/vegan dish?

[venta.livejournal.com]

That's my gripe with a lot of vegetarian, and particularly vegan, recipes I've found online. They all seem to want to try and mimic meat-based dishes. Supermarket chiller cabinets seem to be full of "ham-style slices", and "cheese-style chunks" and "chicken-style pieces"... they give me the heebiejeebies.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Better than heebie-style jeebies!

[sushidog.livejournal.com]

I have encountered the American use of "Dutch oven" but I would say "oven" implies dry heat, so if it's being used for a stew or casserole it's not really an oven.
Having said that, I have baked a cake in a Dutch oven; or at least, I have put a cake tin full of cake mix into my biggest le Creuset casserole, put the lid on, and put it on the hob to bake (the oven had failed to pre-heat, and I thought the cake mix would go flat by the time it got hot enough). It worked surprisingly well.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

That sounds a great idea! Did you put a trivet or something in, or was the cake tin just sitting on the base of the casserole?

[sushidog.livejournal.com]

I think it was just sitting on the base of the casserole, but a trivet would have been a good idea; as it was, the bottom of the cake was very slightly burnt, and I think a trivet would have prevented that. It wasn't an ideal way of baking a cake (I had to guess on the temperature, and just keep checking it until it was cooked), but it worked in a pinch!

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

I shall bear it in mind if I'm ever in the same pinch!

[venta.livejournal.com]

I don't think I'd even have thought of cake mix going flat while it was waiting... did I mention I'm not a great baker ;)

and speak Double Dutch with a real double duchess.

[pseudomonas.livejournal.com]

Urban Dictionary has a definition for this as well, but it is less helpful.

[venta.livejournal.com]

Interestingly, so does Wikipedia under "Dutch_oven_(practical_joke)" :)

[venta.livejournal.com]

Oh, also, one kudo to you :)

[pseudomonas.livejournal.com]

Yay! I have been longing for a kudo for aaages but my knowledge of Modern Music is pitiful.

[venta.livejournal.com]

I shall try to use more subject-lines from madrigals in future :)

Re: and speak Double Dutch with a real double duchess.

[j4.livejournal.com]

Curses, you beat me to the kudo. One of my all-time favourite songs. :)

Re: and speak Double Dutch with a real double duchess.

[pseudomonas.livejournal.com]

:) I think my favourite of his is Indoor Fireworks, though it's close-run with Oliver's Army.

[the-alchemist.livejournal.com]

I thought it was something to do with farting in bed!

[venta.livejournal.com]

I imagine that was the Urban DIctionary definition pseudomonas referred to above :)

(I didn't actually check, because UD terrifies me sometimes. But I am aware there is an alternative that involves farting in bed!)

[pseudomonas.livejournal.com]

yes, indeed. I find the UD useful for terms too new or informal to have made it to the OED, but I admit it gives the impression of having been curated by boorish 13-year-olds.