I've never owned a sleeping bag let alone a mountain bike

[venta]

So, cycling persons... I need a recommendation. I want to buy a rear pannier, but I want one that turns into a rucksack when it's not on the bike. I know these exist, because I know someone who's got one. But they seem to be very thin on the ground (or, possibly, are known by a particular name which I do not know and thus cannot google for). Needs to be large enough to fit a 15" laptop and a bunch of other stuff, and should have a few zippy pockets.

I am currently using a Hamax pannier rack - I don't know how much variation there is in racks, or whether there are different systems for fixing, so any advice on that would be welcome.

If you're going to do the classic LJ-answer-thing and tell me why I don't want what I think I want but should instead buy something totally different, please read the detailed bit below :)

1. Yes, I know having one pannier on unbalances the bike. But I've been doing it (with a borrowed pannier) for a few months now and I'm ok with that. Yes, I could just put my laptop in a normal rucksack to carry it when I'm cycling; I did that for around 6 months and ended up with quite a sore back. Even if I could find a better rucksack, I vastly prefer cycling without one.

2. Yes, I does have to convert into a backpack. I have a lot of neck problems, and carrying a shoulder bag (currently the borrowed pannier) is doing me no good at all. I don't care how comfy/padded/supportive the shoulder strap/handle is, I wanna rucksack! Having to carry the bag some distance without the bike is unavoidable in my current commuting pattern.

3. Today in my bag I have: 15" laptop, waterproof trousers, lights, gloves, hat, lunchbox, gym kit, magazine (because I couldn't fit in a book). It all just fits into the borrowed pannier. I'd like a little more space if possible. That pannier is also just like a big bucket with not much in the way of pockets - all the little bits (pen, puncture repair kit, sweets) just rattle about at the bottom.

3a. I'm currently using one of those neoprene sleeve things to protect the laptop, so although it'd be nice if the rucksack had an inbuilt laptop-pocket, it's not the end of the world if it doesn't.

4. The borrowed pannier hooks onto the rack with a series of plastic hooks, which seem to have developed plastic fatigue and are shearing off one by one. I reckon it will become useless if one more goes (at present it's fine so long as I don't hop off kerbs too violently). Something which has a more robust attachment mechanism would be nicer.

In other cycling news, I finally decided I was brave/balanced enough to put my seat up to the proper height for the length of my legs. Whereupon my nasty very-uncomfortable-saddle problem promptly vanished. Which just means I should have listened to alien8 and put the saddle up in the first place :)

Comments

[rabbit1080.livejournal.com]

slightly bigger pannier-bag wot fits a smallish proper rucksack? keep the trousers, gloves & hat in the pannier-bag during the day? (assuming you only wear them whilst cycling)

the best rucksack i ever found for cycling was sold as a climbing rucksack. it's quite narrow across the shoulders, so you can still move your arms a lot and most of the weight is at about waist-height. it fitted my old 13" laptop, but a 15" one might be a little ambitious. possibly worth a try though.

one of my prejudices is that it's preferable to carry your laptop on your back rather than in a pannier-bag, so it gets less vibration from cycling. reduces wear-and-tear on moving parts (esp hard-drives). i haven't done any scientific studies on this though, due to an unfortunate lack of volunteers for donating control-laptops.

good rucksacks have a waistband so that most of the weight is on your hips rather than on your shoulders. looks a bit pants but works a treat for not getting sore shoulders :-)

neoprene laptop sleeves are awesome. yes i am biased.

[j4.livejournal.com]

I won't say "you don't want the thing you say you want", but I will say "don't get one like I used to have", which was a rucksack that zipped on to the pannier-back bit that attached to the bike (if you see what I mean). The zip between the rucksack and the bike-attachment-bit was the weak point, and eventually broke while I was cycling, which meant I suddenly had a rucksack trailing in my wheels, half-attached to the bike, impossible to unzip from the bike-attachment bit because of the broken zip. Messy and awkward and potentially dangerous. So, er, beware of zips. Sorry if that's not very helpful! :-}

(These days I just have a rear basket which I can put any bag in.)

[mr-tom.livejournal.com]

I'm not a pannier person, but the received wisdom is Ortlieb or Carradice, both of whom make a panner-backpack thing.

Another option is to use a regular backpack, bungeed to the top of the pannier rack.

[mister-jack.livejournal.com]

Not to do the LJ thing but... is there a reason not to get a normal laptop backtop and put it on a rack positioned above the rear wheel?

Otherwise, I found this which lets you convert a normal panier into a backpack (reviewed here) - which might be useful?

[venta.livejournal.com]

slightly bigger pannier-bag wot fits a smallish proper rucksack?

Not a goer, unfortunately. My bike lives overnight at Reading station, which means I have to take all detachable bits off it - so I'd still have to carry the pannier bag :)

I can see your point about it being preferable to carry the laptop on one's back, but I care more about me than I do about my laptop :) It's not a sore-shoulder issue; I got a lot of lower back pain and also found it greatly reduced my ability to twist to look behind me. On account of the stuffed neck, I do most of my turning in my back and it just didn't work well when wearing a rucksack.

[venta.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I hadn't thought of a rear basket to dump a normal bag in. That might be worth investigating.

On account of having to take all detachable/thievable bits off my bike overnight I hadn't thought of a zippy thing like that, but I shall beware of all forms of zip :)

[venta.livejournal.com]

People have suggested bungeeing a rucksack onto the rack. I haven't actually tried this, but it seems very failure-prone. A big enough rucksack is quite a big, bulky heavy thing and I'm not sure I trust it to balance on something narrow like a rack.

Obviously with enough appropriately placed bungee cords it could presumably be lashed into place, but I'm struggling to imagine it being secure enough, realistically.

[venta.livejournal.com]

See above for comments about rear racks :)

The converter is an interesting idea - though if I'm going to buy a pannier (which I need to do, as the one I'm using is (a) borrowed and (b) on the verge of becoming unusable) I might as well get one which does what I want. But if such things can't be found, then maybe converting is an option. Thanks.

[mr-tom.livejournal.com]

Yes. A better fastener would be a bungee net, but it'd still wobble around a bit.

[rabbit1080.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes, overnighting at a train-station is probably not a good idea for a pannier-bag :)

I assume you have a bike-rack on your bike, on which you attach a pannier-bag? I used to strap a ruck-sack to the top of suck a bike-rack. I used one of those adjustable tapes-with-clippy-things wot they sell at outdoors shops (just as long as the clips are very tough). That way I had a proper ruck-sack that was comfortable to wear. I made sure the tape went through a few loops of rucksack-handle, so even if the rucksack slipped loose it wouldn't fall far, giving me valuable seconds to find a safe spot to stop and fix up the mess.

[j4.livejournal.com]

I hadn't thought of a rear basket to dump a normal bag in. That might be worth investigating.

It's certainly cheaper. :-) My bog-standard wire basket cost under a tenner (it's basically like this (but without the handle or hooky bits) and it's securely cable-tied to the rack at the back (ie I can't remove it, but this also means it can't get nicked). It's amazing how much stuff you can cram into it (especially with the help of bungee cords), and you've still got the option of wearing a rucksack as well if you want to carry silly amounts of stuff.

I suspect things get bounced slightly more in the basket than they would in panniers, though, which may be an issue for a laptop...

[venta.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Carradice seem to do this (http://www.carradice.co.uk/products/type/carradry-rucksack-pannier) (which I found despite their "bag-finder" thingy linking to the wrong place). That looks plausible, though annoyingly the laptop pouchy bit says it will fit a laptop 27x35x6cm, and mine is 36.5 :(

The only Ortieb one I can find (http://www.ortlieb.co.uk/product_info.php?pName=vario) sounds a bit confusing (and twice the price).

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

The threshold for disaster in this solution is about three bungees in my experience. It's the one I favour but I don't ever need to carry a laptop on my bike.

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

There must be a good engineering solution to this that doesn't knacker the laptop. I mean, the human race can make microscopes three stories high that withstand magnitude 6 earthquakes without bashing the sub-millimetre cleared parts together. Things on bicycles ought to have a lot less leverage to cause damage than that for a similar job.

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

Also, when you go over a bump with a laptop sitting flat on the pannier rack it picks the laptop up and smacks it down full-face, whereas if it's jumping up and down while sitting on its side it at least has some damping from the friction between it and the other bag stuff. Instinctively the second one sounds less bad.

[venta.livejournal.com]

Yes. Although this is all theoretical, so practical demonstration may show me to be wrong, but I'm really struggling to imagine the rack-plus-bungees being a good answer.

Getting the bungees on exactly right so the wretched thing doesn't veer off as I go round a corner sounds like the sort of gamble I don't really want to take twice a day :)

[venta.livejournal.com]

I imagine there probably is a good engineering solution - though whether it has been made into a product which is affordable to the average cyclist is a different question :)

I had assumed that rucksacks-which-turn-into-panniers would be a really popular thing, but there don't seem to be many of them around. I reckon if such a thing had a dedicated laptop section which was sort of suspended within the bag (needn't be fancy, just some bits of elastic) then it should be fairly protected from jolting.

[rabbit1080.livejournal.com]

ps. i use these straps to tie my kayak to the roof-rack on my car. the fastener is really easy to use and very tough, which is a nice combination. the straps come in different lengths (well, you could also cut to length :) tends to be a surf-shop thing cos of the roof-rack association. http://www.sidssurfshack.co.uk/rhino-3m-tie-down-straps.html

since i discovered these, i don't like bungee-cords any more. especially for something heavy.

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

Preecisely. Such things exist for transporting specimen holders in aeroplane holds for example.

[rabbit1080.livejournal.com]

good point. can also get some impact-damping from arranging the laptop above any soft items being carried (eg. gym kit).

[drdoug.livejournal.com]

I used to use this system, and it worked really really well for me.

I have a standard pannier rack on the back, and fixed a wire basket to it using cable ties. (It fitted lengthwise quite nicely.) Then I dump my usual work rucksack in to it, with an elasticated cord to hold it in if I'm feeling paranoid about how bumpy the ride is going to be and/or bagsnatchers. I carried laptops etc regularly for years with no problems. Quicker in-and-out than any clipping pannier thingummy too.

One thing I particularly liked about it was that it kept my rucksack well away from mud/water splashing up from the wheels. Panniers that clip to the side of the pannier rack get muddy very quickly.

At the moment I've taken it off in favour of a small kids' seat. I can strap my rucksack in to the seat (when there's no child in it), but it's much more time and bother than just dropping the rucksack in to the wire basket.

[venta.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes, overnighting at a train-station is probably not a good idea for a pannier-bag :)

Out of curiosity, I left the (defunct) frame-fit pump on the bike to see if anyone pinched it. In around a year, they haven't. Although they did pinch my nice green bell (http://venta.livejournal.com/351415.html#cutid1).

I don't think a bag would be wise, though :)

[hirez.livejournal.com]

At this point I tend to turn to the Edinburgh Bicycle catalogue, but while there are rucsacks, panniers and laptop bags, there isn't A rucsack-laptop-pannier-bag.

I'd go for wire basket bolted to top of pannier rack with rucsack therein.

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

Hey, another one! Where do you paddle?

[ruanae.livejournal.com]

I know very little about bikes and panniers etc

But a bit of googling turned up
http://www.carradice.co.uk/products/type/carradry-rucksack-pannier

Don't know if its any use though...

[mr-tom.livejournal.com]

Yes, they're not the sort of company that embraces technology. But they do tell you which elderly Lancastrian lady sewed it together.

[rabbit1080.livejournal.com]

:)
I live in Perth, Western Australia. I generally paddle at the beach (which is pretty sheltered from waves, so mostly there's not much surf). Although I went paddling on the river with BIL and his new wife last weekend.

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

I have yet to go on the sea! I go to the River Don near Sheffield, UK. It's not very exciting but I'm not very good yet! I will go to Anglesey in April and get my first salt-water capsizes in...

[venta.livejournal.com]

I have very fond memories of playing tiggy on the River Tees when I was a teenager. The Tees (at that point) was extremely flat, shallow and uninteresting but it was still a lot of fun.

(Our rules - you have one football, to "tig" someone you simply have to hit their canoe with the football. Obviously it has to be a light plastic football to avoid damage/risking causing someone to capsize. Time-out penalty if you hit a human rather than their canoe. Works best in quite a small area, good for improving manouevering rather than speed/strength.)

I've only been in a kayak once in about the last 20 years, when I was on holiday a few years ago. I was really surprised how much I remembered - and even more surprised at just how much my muscles hurt for the next 3-4 days. Turns out muscle memory doesn't imply you still have the strength to do what the muscles remember :)

[dr-bob.livejournal.com]

I use an Arkel shoulder bag/panier. Very robust and waterproof (although the hook part of the attachment got mangled in my spokes last year). When I was looking into it a few years back, they were the only people who made a rucksack/panier (the bug). There is a dedicated computer sleeve you can add which keeps the computer from banging on the ground when you put the bag down.
Summary of Arkel commuter paniers here .

[venta.livejournal.com]

That's interesting - did you locate a UK stockist, or does one have to order online from the US?

[ewx.livejournal.com]

I routinely cycle with one pannier; I've never noticed any balance problem as a result.

I don't have any special knowledge about how to find a backpack pannier. I do have a warning which might or might not apply to them: my panniers have a shoulder strap but if you use this often then the hooks that attach the pannier to the rack wear a hole in the back of your coat.

At least for the pannier I have, it's possible to get replacement hooks for when they break. Obviously if they break regularly then that's rubbish though…

[dr-bob.livejournal.com]

I found a stockist in London (just one!) and went and bought it there. Can't find it now, either online or on my pooter, unfortunately.

[exspelunca.livejournal.com]

Children's seats are great for baggage/shopping and I kept mine on the bike for years after the child was FAR too large for it, simply as a stuff-carrier.

[smorgasbord.livejournal.com]

Probably not helpful what with you wanting to leave it in a station but I use large cheap panniers and then place eveything inside that in their own bag. They are not easily detachable so safe against idle thieves and if they do eventually get nicked then they did not cost a lot.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/basil-mara-35-litre-double-pannier-bike-bag/

[alien8.livejournal.com]

nothing to add ref Rucksack. thing. Carradice are interesting and I have a few things from them - they work.

Ref Seating postition *aw* shucks. Glad you did it, I'm thinking of your knees here. Now consider moving the saddle back a bit. mmkay? use those glutes :)

[serpentstar.livejournal.com]

I prefer rack + rucksack + bungees.

My experience of pannier-bungee combos is that they do neither job very well. I've never seen one that makes for a genuinely decent rucksack.

OTOH I've used the 3-bungees method to securely hold a 40-litre rucksack in place for quite long journeys. I'm pretty sure I did Manchester to Liverpool with that setup at least once.

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

Ahh, that sounds great fun. I wonder if the kids at canoeing would be up for that (and in a couple of cases, non-dangerous enough). I definitely would but I suspect they would thrash me because they are smaller!